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by super_mario 4033 days ago
Entire quantum physics is a mathematical model of physical things by definition. Quantum wave function is a physical object as are all the other fundamental fields we know about. Photons behave in very physical ways, just not in classical ways like you would expect them based on experience with macroscopic objects we face every day. Likewise, bosons are physical objects that have physical and measurable/observable properties (but they don't have volume) etc.

So now you are getting a bit confused here.

1 comments

>Entire quantum physics is a mathematical model of physical things by definition.

Quantum physics doesn't follow from definition, it follows from experiment. You are confusing a priori statements with a posteriori statements.

>Photons behave in very physical ways, just not in classical ways

What are "physical ways"? What are the properties of "physical ways"? When confronted with a hypothetical 'way', how can we know if that 'way' is physical or non-physical?

The answer is that physicists assume that all existents are physical and then conclude, based on that assumption, that materialism is correct. This is circular logic because materialism is simply the doctrine that everything is physical. So all they have done is assume that materialism is correct and then conclude that, because materialism is correct, materialism is correct.

In order to argue that materialism is correct you first have to define what materialism is, and what it is not. Is the materialism hypothesis even falsifiable? Or is it the kind of hypothesis that changes as soon as it is refuted?

Actually quantum mechanics can be formalized and derived entirely from a few simple and reasonable axioms (that allow for negative probabilities), but yes historically quantum mechanics has been developed through empirical experiments. After all physics is (empirical) science unlike mathematics.

What I meant to convey was that all elements of the theory like quantum wave function, elementary particles (bosons, fermions etc), are elements of that physical model and hence real in that model by definition. It kind of makes no sense to talk about model independent reality, as quantum mechanics so nicely demonstrates.

This is why your statement that bosons are not physical is nonsensical.

In any case most real scientists are entirely open to new evidence of what you would call non-physical things (historically these were usually spirits, souls, demons, gods etc), but historically no convincing evidence has ever been provided for these. On the contrary each time mysterious phenomena turned out to be completely physical and explainable within normal physical framework, and in other cases clearly dreamed up.

It really isn't correct to say materialism or science is doctrinal. After it is not required to believe everything has to be material or explainable within our current framework (it would be akin to saying we already know everything).

However, opposite of materialism is dogmatically imposed in a lot of religions. It is a tenet of Catholic Church for example that materialism can not be true since souls and spirits must exist. This is not open for debate you must accept this to be a catholic. Just so we understand distinction between dogmatism and experience that everything we ever encountered so far has turned out to be physical. I will take evidence over dogma any day.