[hurin]

You couldn't actually not work in former socialist countries though. At least in the Soviet Union this was actively persecuted. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasitism_%28social_offense%2...)

But I do think think that countries which offer a great deal of socialized benefits (such as Finland, Sweden etc.) have a significant problem with a unemployment in the youngest generation of the labor force.

[clarry]

> But I do think think that countries which offer a great deal of socialized benefits (such as Finland, Sweden etc.) have a significant problem with a unemployment in the youngest generation of the labor force.

Unemployment and youth unemployment are big problems in my area. I don't think the benefits are to blame though. It's just that ends don't meet and we don't have enough jobs.

In fact, there's been a strong push to get the unemployed to "do something" (however useless it is.. it's fine as long as they look busy..) and so now we have people who are more or less forced to work for 9eur a day in order to be eligible for the unemployment benefits. Which puts them well below the minimum wage for typical low income full time jobs.

I've been involved, and I know for a fact that many of these young people are very unhappy about this. They really would rather have a real job if they could.

EDIT: Finland

[Thimothy]

It's curious how the traditional protestant work ethics (laziness is sinful, salvation through hard work, etc.) that have been so useful in the past centuries (Finland being one of the best examples of where a impoverish country can get through hard work and stubbornness) are kicking you in the back now that simply there is no more work to be done.

I suppose that universal income would be much easier to accept, politically and socially, in southern Europe, where living from the state doing the less work possible is already applauded and something a lot of people strive for. Of course, in order to implement something like universal income we would need to get our shit together first, and that is just not going to happen.

Anyway, I wonder if there is a country in the EU with a chance of implementing it in a generation. It should be a country without a big immigration problem, not overly protestant, not too big, with a grip on themselves and their politics... Ireland, maybe?

Outside the EU, Switzerland is the obvious choice (I heard that they are already looking into it). I hope they finally decide to do it as, if it works, it would probably trigger a lot of discussion in all Europe.

[Simp]

>(such as Finland, Norway, Sweden etc.)

Norway has an unemployment rate of 3.9%... that's lower than the US (much lower if you use U6 as a metric) or UK. In fact, it's one of the lowest in the world.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_unemployme...

[hurin]

Yes, it appears I was wrong lumping Norway into there, http://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?queryid=36499.

[IanCal]

> But I do think think that countries which offer a great deal of socialized benefits (such as Finland, Norway, Sweden etc.) have a significant problem with a unemployment in the youngest generation of the labor force.

Youth unemployment in Norway is significantly lower than in the US, using the data from ycharts which should be from here: http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/...

United states: 12.3%

Norway: 8.6%

https://ycharts.com/indicators/norway_youth_unemployment_rat...

https://ycharts.com/indicators/united_states_youth_unemploym...

Edit - I see someone else has already brought this up :)

[cm2187]

Call me old fashion but a system that relies on coercion to get people to work isn't viable in my mind.

[proveanegative]

That is not old fashioned at all. What systems to get people to work do not rely on coercion? Even nature, which got us to work on the first place, did so by coercion.

The only way we can make a society more accommodating is to change the type of coercion to a more gentle one. I.e., instead of working to avoid starvation and being eaten by wild animals people now work to avoid going into debt, losing their preferred place to live and having to rely on food stamps (at least in the US). In a society with basic income they would be coerced to work though social pressure and the desire to have nice things. (Edit: The latter may seem like an intrinsic motivation but in a society with advertising it is one that is actively generated. Advertising may actually gain a new, vital role in getting people to work if a basic income program is implemented.)

[cm2187]

No the alternative is to make people to work by incentives. It is the stick vs the carrot.

[Zirro]

I am Swedish and my impression is that the avability of benefits is not the cause of the unemployment. Instead, there appears to be very few jobs left to go around for those who can not or choose not to go through a higher education. Many industries have become significantly more effective through the use of computers, eliminating much of the need for manual labor, for example.