[sqeaky]

> military industrial complex

This phrase shows a simplified few events and organizations as they actually are. The rest of your post shows a fanatical viewpoint lacking in critical thought.

I will agree with you insofar as not everything is ideal with our military spending, the amount of spending and there is some corruption in military spending.

But the government and military must buy goods, this cannot always be fascism. There exists procedures and regulations that attempt limit corruption and to level the playing field for smaller companies. These rules are exactly what SpaceX used to get its foot the door. These rules require certain levels of "quality" and meeting certain requirements, this in effect rules out many of the smallest startups which contributes to why it is so easy for us to feel like outsiders. The smallest company I have seen provide military goods was 12 people, but most require at least 100.

The military also has other functions than "killing of women and children for profit", and claiming that this is one of their goals without evidence strikes me as fanatical. A military that wastes resources on things other than valid enemy targets is wasteful, we have defeated too many foreign powers to be that kind of wasteful.

I think our current military is built more along the lines of "kill the enemy and break his things". It is sad but sometimes innocent people are near the enemy or his things. It is also sad that we try to use our very effective "breaking" organization to occupy or police despite it not being well equipped for such.

[tsotha]

>I think our current military is built more along the lines of "kill the enemy and break his things".

That's what militaries are for. Once you deviate from that core idea you end up with an expensive boondoggle that can't win battles.

[shit_parade2]

Without evidence? It is true the US military refuses to count civilian murders and quaintly calls it collateral damage, as if brown kids are but roads and bridges.

What do you call 14 years of war in multiple theaters resulting in hundreds of thousands of deaths? It that not fanatical? You should reassess your heart, you're in need of a new one.

[sqeaky]

You are objectively wrong. The military keeps count of civilian casualties and the numbers are close to civilian numbers but not identical. The deviance seems explainable by counting methods (for example if the building collapses 3 days after the attack should people injured here be counted or not).

My source if wikipedia, here is one of several examples: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War_documents_leak

They do however keep these documents classified. I think this impairs oversight and all casualty reporting should be public.

As for the military being fanatical, I do not understand you point. The military did exactly what the publicly elected executive, the President, told them to do.

If you were able to speak objectively you should be destroying anyone taking my stance. You just keep shouting out things that are simple to demonstrate as wrong.

Our current violent streak is 15 and not 14 years long. If you can't get such basic facts straight how can you expect to convince others you are worth listening too?

As for the years of war, you should review history. As a country we have had 21 years of peace in the past 240 or so and our current run is in its 15th year. We have been a warring nation for a long time. This country is obsessed with violence, so we elect violent politicians.

It should be trivially easy to make a moral argument that obliterates anyone siding with the military particularly in discussion place like this. You can't make that simple argument because you speak without fact and with fanatical emotion. Let your emotion guide you, but be rooted in fact.

I cannot continue this discussion because arguing with someone so baseless lowers my credibility. This will be my last post in this debate thread.

[shit_parade2]

This will be mine as well.

If the current war began 2001-9-11 that would be 14 years not 15. You are wrong.

Classified documents are meaningless, I have a classified document that is proof I am God. See, how stupid you sound?

If you believe American is beholden to democratic concerns you are either a troll or hopelessly naïve.

Anyone who isn't upset that they live in a country which repeatedly kills civilians without cause is a monster.