[erikb]

Let's say we all agree that the global amount of resources are enough to support all of us without work, just for simplification.

Then what about distribution of these resources? I feel many people work to fight over that distribution, not just to produce. E.g., there might be no $1000/h lawyer who would think that they produce even $100/h worth of resources. But they might still work 80h/week (or make the impression) to get a bigger share of the pie that is already there.

[_pmf_]

> Then what about distribution of these resources?

The point is that this is an entirely separate question.

On a global scale, it's hard to find a worse distribution scheme than the currently used scheme, so any arbitrary distribution is better than the current one (in which the powerful take increasingly more).

[erikb]

The quote mentions that people either work to make a living or to make a reason for living. My argument is that there is another reason which is quite common: to get a bigger piece of the pie. If you put in more hours on friday night because you want a raise then the reason is not that you want to pay your bills (you already do that), and it's not because you couldn't do anything else on friday night that would be reasonable in your eyes. It's because you want a bigger share for yourself.

So I'm not discussing about how to share the resources, but I want to say that's a reason for people to work. The question was more "Isn't that also a reason to work?" Sorry for not being clear enough.

[toolz]

No one seems to be suggesting taking work away from people that want it, rather, it's to alleviate people from working who don't want it.

If you want to work 80 hour weeks to drive a car that can go faster than you'll ever legally be able to push it and live in a house so large you only use a quarter of the living space regularly. Go for it.

As for me, I'd rather have my basics met, so I could spend more time doing things to help build my community or just go camping and enjoy nature on a whim. The worst part is that I've found the more money I make, the better people treat me. So I don't have the option of working part-time just to make ends meet. That would quickly land me in a position with people who look at me like I'm worthless and treat me as expendable, which would make working even more unbearable.

[TheOtherHobbes]

I think a lot of the slightly crazier competitive types would be completely happy competing in virtual market games that have no real physical effects.

I'm totally fine with slightly insane people gambling and trying to out-deal each other, providing they're not doing any physical damage.

The problem we have now isn't so much that competitive people exist, but they're not just allowed to do physical damage, they're encouraged to do it to gain "rewards" in the form of tribal status markers.

As games go, that's not a winnable strategy, because sooner or later you run out of usable game space.

[fwn]

I guess powerobsessed, competitive people will just rush towards politics the minute their time spent in the job won't increase power anymore.

[erikb]

Saying a lot of "you" makes the impression that you(!) think I think that way. I haven't posted my own opinion though. I just added another reason people(!) have for working.

About the other argument you are right. Other people's respect is also an important reason to work.

[ams6110]

So what you are saying is, you want other people to fund your "basics" so you can go camping and do other stuff you enjoy. Wow, nice for you.

[toolz]

Am I supposed to apologize that I want everyone to have an income that would allow them to live and be healthy? Yeah it does sound nice that I could work for just the extras and then spend the rest of my life enjoying them. I don't feel the slightest bit sorry that I'm appreciative that we live in a world where technology could take care of most our basic needs and every day the need for human input is shrinking.

[S4M]

He never said he wanted other people to fund his basics. He just wants to work little for a little salary and lots of free time.

[msellout]

On a global scale? I thought all those Hans Rosling "Mind the Gap" videos were telling us the world is increasingly equal.

[squids]

90% of the world still live on less than $10 a day. If you incorporate inflation into the 1981 $1 a day world bank poverty threshhold it would be about $2.50 a day now. At that $2.50 there are something like 300 million more people living below that absolute poverty line than there were when it was created.

Unfortunately those Hans Rosling presentations really only deal with mortality at birth, which has consistently improved but probably only down to improvements in neonatal technology.

It's really about time people came to realise the World Bank/IMF neoliberal "free trade" globalisation experiment really only works to enrich western asset holders at the expense of the rest of the world through debt bondage.

[juliangregorian]

It's only that way when you say things like "Most of the world has a cell phone, while the Caesars couldn't have even imagined it".

Meanwhile, the world's wealth becomes increasingly concentrated at the top.