[andkon]

I'm a startup founder living in Toronto, and thought I'd post in counterpoint. I live in a small apartment, and pay myself using any money I can cobble together from grants, contracting, investment, etc. I have no interest in buying a house, and I'm actually pretty sure that committing to that would be counterproductive if you're founding your own startup. If you think it's necessary to have a paid-off house before you start something, then you likely don't fit the risk profile of someone who would successfully be able to do so. No first time startup founder I know owns their own house, and most pay their own rent, and most have jumped off to do their own thing because they simply cannot wait any longer and hate working on anyone else's stuff.

On the other hand, you're right about developer salaries being low here, comparatively. It's partly a function of the startups that exist here, and of Canadian cultural tendencies to just sit and simmer. If engineers are unlikely to jump ship, it's likely going to mean that salaries are lower than they could be.

So if you just want to get paid more, interview at a bunch of places and get higher offers, then tell your boss. If you want to be a startup founder, then quit your job when you've got six months' runway saved up, incorporate your company in London, ON, and do your best to get NRC IRAP and OCE SmartStart, and expect the rest to work out.

[icki]

Hey thanks for your reply! How do you like being a T.O. startup founder?

I'm not 100% committed to buying a house, but I don't have any runway to start out with my personal projects full time. What I meant to say was that I would never want to be in a situation where I can't meet my financial obligations (rent as a part of a longer-term lease, or mortgage payments). I am doing my best to get out from under my student debt and build my runway/rainy day fund as quickly as possible.

Do you think that low salaries might also be a function of brain drain? There are a lot of tech workers in Canada on visas, and it might be because a lot of Canadians leave the country to work in SFBA, NYC, Seattle, etc.

Could you point me to any resources for information about starting companies in Ontario, and receiving grants? You seem like you've got quite a bit of know-how :)

[andkon]

No problem! So far it's decent, but for the stuff I like (consumer-facing businesses) it's definitely nothing like the Bay. There's a lot less money for early-stage startups, there's a lot more government money (which is good and bad), and there's a more risk-aversion on behalf of founders and investors alike. Here's an instructive read: https://medium.com/toronto-tech/toronto-d0ea5da434e

I was fortunate enough to not have student debt when I graduated, so that's one thing that made my leap easier. Agreed, though - I don't wanna go broke either :)

I think braindrain probably plays a role... But ultimately, the issue is that there aren't even enough (successful) startups in the province to employ all those grads if they stayed.

Actually helpful resources are scarce but we could grab coffee or skype if you wanna talk about your options! My email link is in my profile. It's always best to find someone who has done exactly what you intend to do, so just keep talking with folks.

-Andrew