[mathgeek]

> You should be more interested in the opportunity not the exact pay. This looks like a money grab. Having a good career is more important than a dollar figure.

If you're already in a position that you enjoy, the dollar figure is certainly one of, if not the most important items on a cold call job offer. Asking them to open the discussion with a rough number is more than fair, in my book.

[rilita]

I would never hire someone with this perspective. Quality of the position and the ability to enjoy it and work hard without stressing is way more important than pay in my book.

[throwaway12309]

No wonder there is a tech shortage. "I want people that don't care about money so I can treat them like slaves" YAY Go Tech! /s

[rilita]

We don't need more tech people. We need more tech people who give a shit about their jobs besides getting paid.

[throwaway12309]

Why? Not being an asshole, seriously wondering?

Let's assume we have two people, and for sake of discussion, both will only work 8 hours a day. Do you think enthusiasm will trump experience and profissionalism?

I don't follow the latest trends in frameworks/languages, I like solid solutions over start up mentality of ship fast and think over the problems and design good solutions for my clients. I work with SV startups that have all these people that 'care' but I'm still called to clean up their shit. And because of this, I make very very good money. I still won't work more than 8 hours a day, and except for a couple hours to unwind (HN, news, reddit) I don't even touch the computer and spend the time with my family/community. And I can tell you, if sweeping streets paid me more, I would be sweeping streets. I don't give a fuck about the work I do. Want me to work on oil platform, if you pay me, sure! A social network for gerbils, if you pay me, sure! HFT, if you pay me, sure!

[brazzledazzle]

Since someone who's gainfully employed and considers pay a prevailing factor wouldn't really be compatible with you it sounds like including that would effectively keep someone like them and someone like you from wasting each other's time.

In your position I'd be appreciative of that sort of honesty instead of encouraging folks to hide it since you have very different priorities.

[russelluresti]

You know what can make your life really stressful? The inability to pay rent or afford clothes/food for your spouse and kids.

Pay is hugely important in determining your quality of life. You can't just completely ignore the subject.

If the job opportunity being offered doesn't pay enough for you to afford your house or apartment, you can write it off no matter how interesting you might find the work.

[marktangotango]

The quality of your hires will reflect this.

[rilita]

Note I did not say that I would not pay my developers what they are worth. I am saying I would not put it out there initially in emails. If I stated I pay well publicly it would just attract money grubbing morons.

[s73v3r]

And I would never work for someone with your perspective, cause you're just looking for a sucker to lowball and overwork.

And pay level is a huge contributor to stress levels.

[rilita]

I've seen people happily work at much lower pay then they deserve. I've also seen people work at higher pay then they are worth and still be miserable. Pay isn't all that.