[basseq]

> I'd have to live in a tent with my family of 4 and eat ramen and the occasional squirrel.

Or a "stone cottage in the Kumaon".

We've been trained to maximize the curve: could you live an albeit different life on 60% of your pay and work three days a week? Most of us work five days a week: why don't you work all seven days a week and make 40% more?

[gregd]

could you live an albeit different life on 60% of your pay and work three days a week?

Yes. It consists of a tent, eating ramen and the occasional squirrel.

[balabaster]

You haven't really considered the alternatives available to you.

A non-exhaustive list of possible solutions include: Do you have a yard or patio space? Start growing your own produce. Seeds are cheap and with a bit of time and love will pay you back forever more. Tomatoes, peppers and herbs will all grow well on a window sill. Potatoes, onions and garlic will all grow in a bag in the back of the pantry if you let them. You can multiply potatoes, onions and garlic quite easily.

A big bag of flour can be found cheap (Costco for instance), make your own bread/pasta. That way you can supplement your Ramen with nutritious meals without breaking the bank.

If you're in California (or somewhere else with a high amount of sunlight, which many HN readers appear to be) perhaps think about the option of solar panels on your roof to reduce your power bill (flyers and auctions are great places to find these cheap, Google will help you with installation and then you just need to find an inspector).

Actually look at everything you spend money on in a month and ask yourself if there's a cheaper way to get those things without costing you so much money... and really look for solutions, you'd be surprised what you can find with a bit of ingenuity/creativity.

[gregd]

How would you know I haven't really considered the alternatives to living cheaper?

I don't have a yard to grow vegetables. We live in an apartment. When we lived in Portland, we had a yard to grow vegetables but our monthly water bill was prohibitively expensive (we're talking hundreds of dollars every 3 months).

Costco has a yearly membership fee, which I think at a minimum, is up to $75/year.

I work full time and my wife is in school full time in another city. We have 2 children (I have 4 altogether) who are school age. How the fuck am I supposed to make bread and pasta? Our rent is just shy of $1400/month.

Buying solar panels? What do solar panels cost nowadays and how much is installation? I can't install solar panels in my apartment.

I don't have a car payment because our only car is paid off. Except for student loans, we are debt free.

Edited to add: The other huge expense for us now is healthcare. The cost of healthcare for a family of 4 is astronomical.

[balabaster]

I wasn't suggesting those are all the solutions to your woes. There are many creative ways to live and the solutions that are right for you aren't going to be the solutions that are right for everyone. Perhaps you're living the cheapest way you can in the environment you have to be in for the moment, perhaps the only creative thing you can do to live the life you want is to re-prioritize. Perhaps that is not feasible for the moment either. Only you know the answer to that.

Costco does have a membership fee which (I think you're right) is $75 a year, but you get an annual dividend out of that membership depending on how much you spend there. Over the course of your annual membership, it's easy to save way more than the $75 you spend between the dividend and because the cost per unit of goods are much cheaper for many things.

Solar panels can be expensive, it's a good idea to keep your eye on sales, flyers and auction sites to get great deals and only buy when you find a good deal. I have no idea how much installation would be where you live. Me and my father-in-law are both pretty handy and Google pretty much tells us everything we need to do to install them. All you need is an inspector. With Google you can pretty much do anything you can imagine with a bit of ingenuity.

Having an apartment is limiting, for sure. But even growing some produce in the window will save some money.

Making bread and pasta is easy: Flour, salt, eggs, water, yeast will see you through both. Having some basic ingredients in the house will take you a long way to being able to make whatever you want without having to pay retail for it, and it's thoroughly satisfying. Again, Google is your friend.

Congrats being debt free. That is a tough thing for many/most people to be able to say in today's economy.

[organsnyder]

It sounds like you're unable/unwilling to consider relocating as a way to minimize cost. That's fine—everyone is entitled to live where they feel is best for them—but there are plenty of locations where you could get much more space, in a good location, for less than $1400/month.

[gregd]

What I don't understand, is the comment about relocating like it's like taking a walk in the park.

Have you taken a look at how expensive simply moving is? There's the rental truck or pod, there's first, last and security deposit for the new place. Sometimes there's a doubling up of rent. If you're moving to different cities, there's the price of gas or diesel for your moving truck. Not to mention the time and energy it takes to pack up and move.

Relocating isn't as easy as some people make it out to be....

[balabaster]

I'd second this notion, having moved just about every year for the past 16 years, sometimes to different provinces and countries it's exhausting and can be extremely expensive. Sometimes you don't realize any savings from a move for many months or in some cases, years... and if you're unlucky, you don't realize any savings at all and in fact, hidden costs that you hadn't accounted for can end up costing you money or sinking you into a hole. So moving can also be a risk, sometimes, it's better the devil you know than the devil you don't.

Moving cheaply requires good timing, a handy amount of free labour (i.e. friends that own trucks and owe you favours or like you enough to help just out of the goodness of their own hearts), a little good luck, a keen eye on available real estate and good negotiation skills. Without all of these lining up, it's likely to cost a bit.

[organsnyder]

It's certainly not easy. However, if you really want to pursue the lifestyle being discussed here, it's likely a necessity.

It's counter-intuitive, but often living frugally requires a higher up-front cost (such as buying quality, higher-priced goods that will cost less in replacement and maintenance in the long-run).