[cies]

Is this article telling the story of someone who's been on the JEE for 12 years, loves it, and would certainly choose it again.

While I'm happy for him, I dont think it makes a good case JEE as a "startup's secret weapon" (SSW).

By hypothetical comparison, if someone used 6 major tool chains for the last $DOUBLE_DIGIT_NUMBER years, and by comparison says one particular tool chain is an SSW, then I'm much more inclined to value the recommendation.

[mikehaggard]

I agree with what you say. Certainly would have had a bit more value if the article had elaborated on whether they used anything else. I feel the interviewer should have asked about that. Even a "no, we didn't" would have been valuable. Now we know nothing.

That said, it DOES mean that they have been happy with Java EE and have been so happy that they choose it again for their latest startup.

Contrast this with a typical startup where engineers always seem to hate whatever they used before and are like children in a candy shop for having the opportunity to use whatever we think is cool here.

[cies]

> That said, it DOES mean that they have been happy with Java EE

Sure. I'm also happy for them, and I acknowledge JEE's massive installed-base and performance.

Just the "startup secret weapon" claim/title I thought was unfounded.

[john-waterwood]

I hear you. I personally stand by the title choice because IMHO there are two facets to Java EE. I'm not saying that it's a fact (I simply don't have the data to back it up), but those 2 facets I see are:

* huge installed enterprise base

* modernisation of the platform aiming it a both small and big users

I've been active in Java/Java EE for some time, and I know that these facets can be at odds with each other.

For instance Java EE people wanting to support enterprises exclusively still think in needs of enterprises, which means there's always a dedicated ops team, an installed server that nobody but ops can touch and developers that communicate with ops via tickets.

This warrants having data sources and security modules configured outside the application and maintained by ops.

For small users this is silly overhead. When you're the only one developing an app the security module can be right inside the app.

Some Java EE people have introduced mechanisms to do so, but the enterprise people who are still there hate it, saying a server should always be maintained by an ops team. The very idea that a small shop doesn't have an ops team just doesn't occur to them.

Long story, but the simplifications that are making Java EE incresingly suitable for small shops and startups, while maintaining access to the power of the full platform to me doesn't seem well known yet.

[cies]

I respect your views totally. But I still disagree on the title.

> huge installed enterprise base

This is more a reason for a consulting shop to pick JEE.

All in all I think the article more describes why one cannot get around JEE for enterprise work. And how JEE is not as terrible as it was.

That last point assumes levels of "terribleness" are well understood by by many.

When it comes to "startup secret weapons" (except maybe for startups that have to tie in with enterprise systems), I think JEE is the last thing that comes to my mind. Even after reading the article.

[john-waterwood]

We're all free to have our opinions ;)

About the reason for the consulting shop to pick EE because of the installed base, that was indeed my point regarding the first facet.

The first facet (huge base) is what appeals to enterprises. The second facet (modernisation & aimed at small users) is what appeals to startups.

That EE had a huge installed base is pretty well known I think. But that EE now also aims at small shops? Perhaps not so much ;)