Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by juanito 4055 days ago
I really appreciate the resources provided. But I'm not a fan of the website suggesting that I want/need privacy because I have something to hide.
6 comments

All of the below examples aside, why not? Why should your wanting to hide something be any more sinister than what you want for dinner? And if you yourself don't have anything to hide, awesome. Is it not worth protecting my right to hide things should I want or need to?

There are many reasons to desire privacy other than wanting or needing to hide something. The existence of this site does not invalidate those. But one great technique, when someone holds a rhetorical gun to your head, is to just reach up and pluck out the bullets, reclaiming and sanitizing the opposition argument. "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." "Guess what, I do have things to hide, and that shouldn't get stigmatized."

"If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." "Guess what, I do have things to hide, and that shouldn't get stigmatized."

The argument isn't about hiding things, it's about the right to privacy. The right exists whether you have something to hide or not or whether you like to swim or anything else that irrelevant.

And if you don't "have anything to hide" your right doesn't automagically go away.

I disagree with the phrasing -- it shouldn't be about what you want to hide, it should be about what you want to show. I always go back to the same argument: if you're OK with the government recording absolutely everything, does that include the bedroom? The bathroom? I'm not doing anything illegal in there, but it's definitely not something I'd be OK with sharing with the world at large.
If you don't think I have anything to hide, why are you so intent on looking?
The name is provacative, it is on purpose.

A better phrase could have been, "we, as a society, have things to hide from companies and government", but it was too long :)

Isn't that still missing the point? We don't want to be spied on period, whether there are things to hide or not.
We need to get comfortable with the fact that having things to hide does not make us guilty, criminal, or unethical.

Whether it's dick pictures, political views, or associations with questionable NSA targeted groups like UNICEF[1].

I argue that it's our responsibility to hide things to support freedom and democracy.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2014/05/22/nsa_gchq_...

I firmly disagree. Hiding things is a hack; the actual solution is to change society such that exposure entails no significant consequences.

Sure, as a band-aid to make existing real people feel secure? Hiding things and keeping them hidden is fine. It's just an indicator of how far we as a society still have to go.

Do remember: "it's our responsibility to hide things to support freedom and democracy" is the exact argument used by the government against things like Wikileaks. The exact argument.

I'm not sure I follow your logic. So are you saying if we were a further advanced society people could have sex a crowded bus or restaurant and we should just all accept it and not expect them to get some privacy?

I'm not suggesting anyone should be ashamed of sex. I am suggesting that most people want that moment to be private and even those that around them want them to keep it private as well.

If you don't think that people having sex in public should be ashamed, why did you bring it up?
"Do remember: "it's our responsibility to hide things to support freedom and democracy" is the exact argument used by the government against things like Wikileaks. The exact argument."

The government does not have the right to privacy, we do. And exercising that right is well doing something we have the right to do.

Exercising free speech is good. Don't you think?

Your suggestion is like arguing that we needn't worry about food production because we could have Star Trek replicators.

I would very much like to live in your utopia, but until then we have to handle the reality:

http://np.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1fv4r6/i_believ...

I would love to know your thoughts on how to deal with our current situation.

It is the response to the argument that "If you don't have something to hide, you shouldn't mind having your rights trampled on" with the attendant presumption that anyone with something to hide must be a criminal or a T7t.
T7t? I'm not familiar with that term and my Google-fu is apparently not strong enough.
Like i18n or l10n: nine-letter word, starts and ends with "t", rhymes with "bogey man."

Edit: and no, I've never seen this particular abbreviation.

Terrorist (It's like i18n stands for internationalization, )
how about 'wehavesomethingtohide' ?

I understand that we're in an individualistic society, and that personal concerns are more effective at driving behavior than societal concerns, but as the responses here show that many people equate hiding with guilt we might as well address both :)

Third parties are happy to extract value from data you share. Even if you’re not doing anything wrong, controlling that information has an impact. The way I see it, saying “I have something to hide” is, WLOG, the same as saying “I want to control what gets shared with whom.”

EDIT: If the site author is reading this, tip #6 misspells ‘diaspora’ as ‘dispoara’.

Thanks, it is now corrected.
Also, "gonvernment"
Care to elaborate on the details of your most recent sexually-intimate encounter?

...

That's what I thought. Everyone has something they don't want others to know.

I hear this response often to the "i have nothing to hide" camp. Feels to me like we would have something better to say. Pointing to one thing most clearly wish to hide is just not a good comparison with the digital breadcrumbs we throw around. They dont compare.

We have all come to accept that some people are able to know when you walk down the street past their store, if they wish. The bus driving is free to mentally note when you get off and on the bus.

Telling people to wear masks when walking outside because our daily routine is as equally private as our sex lives, just does not equate. At times I feel this line of argument belittles everyone and their opinions in debate.

OK. Supposedly,I have no expectation of privacy when I am out in public. Certainly, anyone could see me go into a particular store. That is not the same as following me around everywhere and noting down everything I am doing. Most people would call that stalking. So what if I have nothing to hide? It is still creepy and inappropriate. This is my main objection to widespread surveillance cameras and an analogous argument applies to my online activity.
As I've argued before, small, isolated public events become extremely private descriptions of our lives when aggregated.
I licked pussy. Since you're asking.

I'm perfectly okay with others knowing that. Why do you want to shame me for that?

You are arguing for a world that might benefit you, will definitely benefit intelligence creepers, and would be considered by most human beings undesirable and downright hostile. Expect resistance.
>>I licked pussy. Since you're asking.

I said details. All you did was give us a summary.

For example, who was the lady? Would she be OK with you sharing this with the world?

I don't believe you. I'll need photographic and auditory evidence supporting your claim.
Is there no distinction between hiding something and choosing not to discuss it?
Well, we all have something to hide.
Exactly. The phrase 'something to hide' has become synonymous with 'something illegal' or 'you're doing something wrong', when in reality everyone has things they simply wish to keep private.
'I have something to keep private' isn't as punchy. Also it doesn't go far enough. 'My entire life is private' is closer. Of course my public interactions aren't AS private; but still largely private (its nobody's business what laundry detergent I buy at the public supermarket).
I wasn't talking about the title of the article, but in general. Those in support of these surveillance programs have worked hard to conflate 'something to hide' with 'something illegal' so that most people will go along with them as they have 'nothing illegal to hide.'
Agreed. Its the doublespeak used by those trying to make ubiquitous surveillance commonplace.
Passwords & credit card details are something to hide