[shiranaihito]

Yes, saying bad things about Microsoft is frowned upon.

OOXML & bribes, anyone? SCO? Patent threats? Netscape? Holding back the web for 10 years? Countless other acts of evil bullshit?

I guess this is the same kind of denial that makes HN throw a hissy-fit at trying to bring up the very real problem that is Islam (in Europe).

See no evil, hear no evil.. What a wonderful community of very intelligent people we have here, heads firmly lodged in their asses. Let's never talk about anything that really matters in the world.

[jodrellblank]

Saying "lololol M$ i hope they die" is frowned upon. Post something with content, support your whining, talk about it.

Microsoft have opened their internal development to the world over the past few years - this blog entry is an example - from all kinds of development teams, we have enormous amounts of insight into many of Microsoft's major products and access to give feedback to people who care.

Don't just focus on the 'evil bullshit' (much of which is probably not 'evil', just the inertia of a huge company).

You can't just drop "Islam is a very real problem" into the middle of a rant about a software company and expect people to think you're not a nutter.

[shiranaihito]

Post something with content, support your whining, talk about it.

Content? I did mention a few examples, didn't I? Well then, would you care to tell me why they're all invalid? I've done this kind of thing before, and every time someone disparages MS here, he's treading on thin ice. There will always be MS-apologists around.

Microsoft have opened their internal development to the world over the past few years

They sure have made a show of being more "open" to please/distract programmers, that's all.

You can't just drop "Islam is a very real problem" into the middle of a rant about a software company and expect people to think you're not a nutter.

I realize this is something that people don't want to hear, and can't process without adjusting their conceptions of things, but that doesn't make it any less true.

Want some content? Here's a video of angry muslims in London: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoMeUcC_M20. One of the signs they're proudly displaying says "Europe, you will pay. Your annihilation is on its way!!!".

Does that sound a tad threatening to you? That protest is probably related to events in 2004, when they actually killed a Dutch film director, Theo Van Gogh, for releasing this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tvH_uowO-0 .. Yes, they killed a man for making a short movie.

The average muslim you meet will most likely tell you that Islam is a "religion of peace", but what they don't mention is that if you say otherwise, they'll kill you. If it's such a mellow religion, why is there a protest full of its followers waving signs saying that they'll destroy Europe then?

Western people believe the line about a religion of peace because they want to, because we should all just get along and coexist in peace and harmony. That's just the humane way of life that we as Westerners are wired to like and want, but that's not what muslims have in mind.

----

Update:

Quick! Someone call PG and get him to delete this thread so no one else will see what I'm saying here!

[jodrellblank]

Content? I did mention a few examples, didn't I? Well then, would you care to tell me why they're all invalid?

They are invalid in a discussion about IE9 developments because they aren't about IE9. They are valid in a discussion about web development in general... except they are arguing against your citing 'netscape' and 'holding back web development' because this blog is about MS not holding back web development and not destroying a competing browser. In other words, Microsoft has moved on from those (e.g. this page) so those aren't good support for your complaints anymore.

People in this page are saying bad things about Microsoft, about their javascript interpreter speed, their lack of canvas support and rounded corners and font handling and they aren't being voted down. Any guesses why?

I am an MS apologist. I have worked with their stuff for the last six years and find it (mostly) better than I previously thought, and not deserving of quite as much of the mudslinging as actually happens online.

Islam

Don't know anything much about Islam and couldn't give two whoots. Particularly don't want to discuss religion or country/world politics on HN, even more so in a thread about an IT topic. By the way, I also don't want to discuss dishwasher detergent, pie recipes, good books on optical illusions or how to build a canoe.

[shiranaihito]

They are invalid in a discussion about IE9 developments because they aren't about IE9.

Well then, why did you insist that I should "support my whining"? I'm pretty sure my "whining" was just as not related to IE9 as it is now.

Besides, if you squint and look really hard, you'll notice my goal here was not really to discuss the finer points of IE 9. You've obviously got a problem with that, but how much would you surmise I care?

They are valid in a discussion about web development in general... except they are arguing against your citing 'netscape' and 'holding back web development' because this blog is about MS not holding back web development and not destroying a competing browser.

I take it that MS discussing IE 9 on a blog means that they actually never did any of the things I listed?

People in this page are saying bad things about Microsoft, about their javascript interpreter speed, their lack of canvas support and rounded corners and font handling and they aren't being voted down. Any guesses why?

Wouldn't this be related to "holding back web development"?

I am an MS apologist. I have worked with their stuff for the last six years and find it (mostly) better than I previously thought, and not deserving of quite as much of the mudslinging as actually happens online.

Glad you came clean. Even I realize that they've been working hard to improve the .NET platform. They have to, because their grip on the world is dependent on developers, developers, developers.. Did you see what they did to improve IE while they weren't worried? Oh that's right! -Nothing.

Don't know anything much about Islam and couldn't give two whoots.

See, now that's the exact same problem I'm trying to solve. You should know that there are people following a 1300-year-old sacred manual on how to behave that says "kill everyone who's not a muslim", and it's happening in 2000-fucking-9.

You don't see Christians going on Crusades anymore, but you do see enraged muslims shouting that they'll destroy Europe. And Europe's collective reaction? -To apologize, look away, and hope that they calm down.

[jodrellblank]

You've obviously got a problem with that, but how much would you surmise I care?

I guess I'll say the same about your terrorist scaremongering and call it a day then. Nice talking with you.

[shiranaihito]

I'm sure you had good counter-arguments for everything I said too.

[shiranaihito]

The difference is that you really should. Oh, and I'm not talking about terrorists. I guess that's what it looks like to an American.

Are terrorists known for holding protests on London's streets where they shout they'll destroy Europe? No? What are those people then?

You call it scaremongering, I could call it trying to dislodge heads from asses, or just "trying to spread awareness" as I said earlier.

[shawndrost]

Everyone else on this page is posting interesting observations on Microsoft, development, and the web. It makes me angry that you've come into my little garden of contemplation and started yelling about irrelevant subjects.

[shiranaihito]

Aww.. You're so predictable!

Do I get more denial-groupthink downvotes with this one?

[dschobel]

I believe the more cliché 'group think' reaction would have been to up-vote your Microsoft bashing.

[shiranaihito]

I believe I mentioned denial. Take a look at that video of angry muslims, by the way :)

I wonder if this will get me banned. I'm not trying to get banned, but it might happen. It'll be interesting to find out.

[gills]

Just say "hitler" already so we can know the conversation is over and prune this ridiculous tangent of a thread from the top of the page...

[shiranaihito]

Yeah, or you could give things some thought, find out for yourself, and join the choir. Instead, you're proudly taking in the scenery inside your rectum.

I was just trying to spread awareness. It feels weird to even say that, but something has to be done. Of course, it could be argued that this is not the place for warning the world about the insanity that is Islam, but what is?

There's no forum in the world for talking about how dangerous Islam is, where people wouldn't already agree.

HN on the other hand, is full of intelligent people who certainly should be able to handle coming across material that is unpleasant to digest, and adjust their world views accordingly.

There really was some kind of protest full of enraged muslims in London, who were pretty much saying that they'll destroy Europe, and it sure wasn't the only enraged protest they've made. They really genuinely did kill a man for making a short movie that talked about Islam. Shouldn't this kind of stuff at least raise an eyebrow or two? Can you really dismiss all of this as Crazy Talk? Should you? Or should you maybe find out for yourself? Go on, confirm that I'm crazy. I dare you!

There's a blogger in Finland who's been talking about Islam & (muslim) immigrants for years, but only became famous last year when enough people noticed. He became the victim of a nation-wide witch-hunt lead by the local media, and eventually even got fined for something he said on his blog. You see, in Finland we have freedom of speech as long as we're careful not to say anything unpleasant. I was somewhat surprised he didn't get thrown in jail.

What the blogger has done requires giant balls of steel. What I'm doing here is the only thing I'm aware I can, however misplaced or aggravating it might be.

Also, "hitler".