[ethbro]

Nor do I, but I allow for the possibility of the ends justifying the means still being a moral path in some circumstances. I also purposely tried to leave out "stable" as a goal adjective, as I agree that's an entirely too amorphous term.

I think Turkey is an interesting, if heavily cult-of-personality, example.

In essence, the US Supreme Court is a very real check on democracy and free speech. The former in that it can override democratic decisions, and the latter in that it has decided in several judgements that the right to free speech is not absolute (that it has not done so more frequently is kind of immaterial to the ideals of the state).

I would argue as a that historically people have show that they value personal gain more than either freedom or convenience, particularly in exactly the kind of government-today-gone-tomorrow states we're talking about.

As soon as you involve people with guns, then the person with the biggest gun starts having a better argument. Which is how you get central African transitions as opposed to South Africa.

A new state is only one of the potential outcomes of revolution. Endemic violence is another (Somalia, Congo, Afghanistan, Iraq).