[mpdehaan2]

Perception is also something that is taught. If everyone puts in 12 hours, 12 hours becomes the norm. I really dislike working for organizations that care more about the perception than the reality, and it's my advice that folks try to avoid those (or leave them).

It's better to not condition your manager to think this is acceptable early on, or it quickly becomes something you can be forced to do regularly.

I do agree that if that's the case, you definitely shouldn't be putting in a continuous 12, because it's almost guaranteed your management isn't.

The worse case is when they want presence, and as a result, people stay at work long hours reloading the internet. There's no point in that, which is why it's important to just measure results, not effort.