[normloman]

I hear what you're saying, but staying at work longer, is still shitty. The point of leaving work is so you can tend to your matters at home - family, chores, pursuing your own interests. A long break in the middle of the day won't fix that - you'll simply waste more time on the internet.

(I'm doing that right now.)

[wesleytodd]

Certainly not saying the setup is something to aspire to. But we have to deal with the cards we were dealt.

My goal as a manager is to promote better work hygiene in my employees. Which was supposed to be the point of my comment, probably should have left off how I personally have dealt with this.

[darkmarmot]

I am so glad you're not my manager. My team just got a Team of the Year award -- and we are completely results-oriented. I usually get to the office by 10, leave whenever I feel like it. We only care about skill and productivity. We would fire someone who hung around the office in order to meet a perception...

[cullenking]

The employee can still leave at 3pm, but maybe he shoots off a couple of his team-oriented emails at 6:30am. That shows he's indeed working early, so leaving early isn't weird.

One of my employees does this by spending the morning hours managing his inbox and otherwise catching up. Additionally, he always makes a fresh pot of coffee right when getting in. The coffee maker has a 2 hour heat timer, so when it dings at 8:30am it's a clear indication he was in the office early.

You don't have to be blatant. He isn't, but he's well known as the guy in the office that likes working super early, and no one gets bent when he steps out of the office by 4pm. They occasionally whine about how it's unfair he's a morning person and gets to enjoy the afternoon sun, but it's jovial joking about their night owl habits compared to his morning habits.

Basically, having a good team that understands and respects each other is the key. If you don't have that you miss out on many of the good parts.

[wesleytodd]

This was a much better way to make my point. Thanks, because this is exactly what I meant.

[protonfish]

Your goal as a manager should be to deliver the perception that everything is great to your superiors and not put it on the backs of your team members. If they have to stay after to impress your boss, then you have failed.

[tinkerdol]

> But we have to deal with the cards we were dealt

Are you sure about that? You're a manager. Responding to your parent comment about managing worker's perceptions of their team members: In the case that someone wants to leave at 3 because they got there at 6, why not just explain to everyone that it is, in fact, okay (or even encouraged)?

[wesleytodd]

There is a difference between a manager and owner. I am taking the hit because I can and because it keeps up the expectations of the owners. Sadly it is hard to escape the "butts in chairs" mentality when you pay people >5 figure salaries.

[s73v3r]

No, your job is to communicate to those other assholes that your team member isn't slacking; that he was here at 6 in the morning.

[wesleytodd]

And to help them communicate that better in the future.

[normloman]

If you're the manager, can you sway the owners into relaxing hours? Have you tried?

[wesleytodd]

HAHA, yeah can't picture that conversation going well:

"Hey guys, I know we are an non-profitable early-stage startup, but do you think we could all try to stick to 8 hour work days?"

[toomuchtodo]

Then why stay? Why waste quality of life for a startup lottery ticket that data has repeatedly shown will most likely fail? Being a non-profitable early stage startup is no excuse to run the place like a slave ship.

[wesleytodd]

I think this is an interesting comment. Enjoyment of work is a large contributor to my "quality of life". And working at a startup provides interesting and unique work.

I find it interesting that everyone always assumes that working more hours means less quality of life. I thoroughly enjoy my job, so spending more time doing it does not detract from anything.

[toomuchtodo]

You're in the minority:

"Only 13 percent of people worldwide actually like going to work"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/on-leadership/wp/2013/10...

[s73v3r]

Do you have a significant ownership stake in the company? If not, then why the fuck are you killing yourself working all this free overtime for nothing?