[analog31]

In my view all it means is that an approximation of perfection is good enough. And the notion of temperament only really applies to keyboard instruments. Strings are tuned to perfect intervals, and even 'good' intonation of fingered notes is a matter of interpretation. Wind instruments are a hodgepodge of compromises.

[yellowapple]

> Wind instruments are a hodgepodge of compromises.

It depends on the wind instrument and the setting.

For woodwinds, yes, this is typically true; it's very difficult to adjust the tuning of a particular note on-the-fly.

For brass, however, this becomes less and less true; more sophisticated brass instruments will have easily-accessible "tuning slides" (in addition to the main one) meant to adjust the tuning of a particular note, making them well-suited for situations where absolute tuning is necessary (it's really useful for brass-only ensembles) and where temperament is dominant (like orchestral and symphonic settings).

This is taken to the extreme with the trombone, which is basically just a giant tuning slide with a mouthpiece and bell, allowing for effectively-unhindered tuning flexibility akin to that of a chamber instrument or a human voice.

[zwieback]

It was all too easy for me to adjust the tuning of any particular note on my oboe, unfortunately usually in the wrong direction. The violin players in front of me, who had much better pitch recognition than me, would shoot me dirty looks and I'd get my pencil out to mark up the sheet music with arrows pointing up or down.

[yellowapple]

Ah yes, forgot about oboe (and bassoon and English horn and double-reeds in general), which tend to be much more sensitive about embouchure when it comes to pitch if I remember right.

[analog31]

All good points. I played flute at one time, and there were notes that had to be shoved around a bit, unless hidden in a fast passage, such as C sharp. And I'm told that french horn players use the hand in the bell as a tuning slide.

[yellowapple]

> And I'm told that french horn players use the hand in the bell as a tuning slide.

You can do this, since how far your hand is in the bell can determine pitch up to even a whole semitone or more (I forgot which way, though, but I think it goes flat as you shove your hand in further; it's been a few years since I've played French horn on any semblance of a routine basis, and I don't have one on hand (those things are damn expensive...)). However, this will also affect tone; the further you shove your hand in, the more muffled it'll sound.

French horn players usually opt for double-horns (F/B-flat) in order to avoid needing to use their bell-hands for tuning; since both "sides" (the F side and the B-flat side) of each rotor can be tuned independently of one another, it means that a skilled French horn player who's learned how to transpose F-keyed notes to B-flat-keyed fingerings (which is actually pretty easy if you already know how to play a bass-clef'd valved brass instrument like a baritone or euphonium or tuba, since F-key and bass-clef C-key have the same note positions on the staff, so you just need to be aware of various differences in accidentals and you can transpose very easily) can pick either an F-side fingering or a B-flat-side fingering for a given note depending on which one is closer to the desired pitch.

[meggar]

I think there is a similar situation with guitar tuning where the G string can either be tuned to a 4th above the D string, or a Maj3 below B string, which are not exactly equal, so guitar chords are usually a tiny bit out of tune.

[neonscribe]

No, the Maj3 interval between the 2nd and 3rd strings on the guitar is unrelated to this issue. It's just the fret spacing on the guitar that causes it to have equal temperament and therefore makes chords slightly "out of tune".

[elihu]

Incidentally, a just (non-tempered) guitar fingerboard might look something like this:

http://jsnow.bootlegether.net/cbg/fingerboard_at_a.svg

I swapped fingerboards on an old Harmony Archtone with one based on the above design. Admittedly, 20 notes per octave may have been a bit much; it's kind of awkward to play. The next one I do will be simpler. Sounds nice, though.

[gnaritas]

Just remove the frets, problem solved.

[elihu]

Fretless is difficult to play accurately, especially for chords. Also, you get a louder sound from frets because your fingers aren't muting the strings quite so much.

[gnaritas]

Of course, but it does solve all such intonation problems.