[danielwarna]

I'd claim that cyclists tend behave a lot more like other motorists than like pedestrians The speed difference between a cyclists and a pedestrian is usually bigger than that between a car and a cyclists, at least in urban traffic. Pedestrians can be very unpredictable and they don't tend to signal very clearly what they are about to do, not to mention that a pedestrian can stop or turn around pretty much instantly.

The optimal solution is of course to build dedicated bike lanes, but if that's not a option I'd rather ride my bike on the road with other cars, than on a shared path with pedestrians. It's also a matter of attitude, roads are built to allow cars to travel between point A and point B as fast as possible. If cycling is to be seen as a form of transportation they also need to have access to proper infrastructure.

[thaumasiotes]

So, I live in Shanghai, which hopefully qualifies as "urban" with a population of over 20 million people (according to wikipedia, almost 10k per square mile, healthily above LA). All of the following situations are routine:

1. Dedicated bike lanes.

2. Bikes hiding along the side of a street without bike lanes, hoping not to be killed.

3. Bikes using the sidewalk.

Sharing the sidewalk is far and away the safest thing for the bikers; even if you're using a dedicated bike lane you'll sometimes have to cross car traffic (say, if you're making a left turn -- I'm willing to do this as part of a giant herd of bikes, but if I'm on my own I just use crosswalks with the pedestrians). Cars are fast; bikes aren't. I could see myself potentially injuring a small child by crashing into them with my bike; I cannot imagine seriously injuring an adult the same way. I have personally been involved in a bike crash; I crashed into a motorized bicycle going the other way in a bike lane. This is much worse in terms of speed differential than a bike hitting a pedestrian, but the total of my injuries was a bleeding knuckle.

> The optimal solution is of course to build dedicated bike lanes

This is phrased with much more confidence than I believe you can reasonably have. Maybe a better solution is to assume that bikers aren't such idiots that they'll be crushing children beneath their wheels all the time if you allow them on the sidewalks. I fairly frequently get stuck behind groups of pedestrians when the sidewalk isn't wide enough for me to go around them. I've often heard one of them say to another "hey, let that guy by". I've never heard anyone say "hey, get off the sidewalk".

> If cycling is to be seen as a form of transportation they also need to have access to proper infrastructure.

Trust me, cycling is viewed as a form of transportation here. And yes, dedicated bike lanes are all over the place. But it's still routine for bikes to use the sidewalk. There are plenty of older areas with wide sidewalks and narrow streets.

[rahimnathwani]

I've lived in China (Beijing and Shanghai) for ~5 years, and frequently ride bicycles and an electric Vespa-style scooter.

Bicycles and scooters on the sidewalk, ridden by inconsiderate riders, are common, irritating and dangerous. The same is true of cars driving in cycle lanes or service lanes, and the myriad other thinga car drivers do to make life difficult for cyclists.

Sure, cycling on the pavement may be in your own self-interest, but it is strictly bad for pedestrians. Why should they have to change their walking pattern for you? I will give way to electric scooters on the sidewalk, not because I don't mind them, but because it's less unpleasant than a collision or being shouted/hooted at.

/rant

[thaumasiotes]

I've never asked anyone to change. Note how I described getting stuck and hearing chinese pedestrians admonish each other to let me by. If I get really stuck I get off and walk the bicycle.

Bicycles on the sidewalk are fairly common. They're not dangerous.

[rahimnathwani]

> I've never asked anyone to change. Note how I described getting stuck and hearing chinese pedestrians admonish each other to let me by.

I've been that pedestrian. We're walking on the pavement. We become aware of someone behind us on a bicycle, who cannot get through unless we move aside. My friend suggests we stop at the side and let the bicycle pass. I reluctantly do so.

Did the cyclist ask me to change? No. Did the cyclist inconvenience me? Yes.

> Bicycles on the sidewalk are fairly common. They're not dangerous.

I was walking to work in Shanghai, ~90 minutes ago (shortly before 7am). A cyclist on the pavement nearly hit me. He was a foreigner wearing a business suit. He was cycling on a pavement which had explicit markings and bollards to separate what was a pedestrian walkway into two lanes (one for cycles). He was cycling along the (narrower) pedestrian part.

[seanmcdirmid]

Meh. At least it wasn't a fast moving electric bike. I know if I get killed in Beijing, it will be because of one of those little buggers.