Ask HN: What I should do with my life?

[thrwwwa]

I finished my CS degree in UK university 1 year ago. Just after finishing it I started working. First few weeks were quite interesting as I was learning a new framework I had to use, and also learning some aspects of working in a commercial environment. But it got boring quite fast. The salary and other perks are great, but the job is boring. I usually just do stuff that doesn't require any creativity or thinking or coming up with interesting solutions. Besides that, it just doesn't matter. I just do stuff so the clients could sell their stuff.

It has made me a little bit depressed...

I am young (23y), and I have so much energy and desire to do something important, to change something, or at least try. I've never cared about money as long as I was able to afford rent and food, so I don't really care about salary.

I remember the days when I had some hobby project (can't come up with new ideas for the last year or so to work on), or some interesting Uni project that involved solving some interesting and harder problems, and it just made me feel alive, it made me think about solving it even when I was trying to fall asleep. I want that again, I want to live like that.

What should I do? Where can I find companies / start-ups that would fulfill me, in UK or some other European country (I really wouldn't mind to move)? Is it even possible? I don't think I even care about the area I would work (as long as it would require computers and programming), I am ready to give all the time to it, and learn stuff. The one problem maybe is that I am not very smart, although my employers are very happy with my work, and basically all the clients I've had since 15 years old, but that was just simple websites, nothing difficult.

What should I do? I really need some guidance, I feel my life is just being wasted.

[brrt]

Figure out what you find important. You live in a post-modern, pluralistic age now, and although many people may claim to know what you should value, nobody really has the authority. Thus, figuring out what things or ideals you value is your own job.

Maybe that is changing the world. Maybe you want to live in the future. Maybe you'll figure out you like the world as it is and want to conserve it. Maybe you don't care about the larger world and just want to experience life. More probably you can't decide because you feel the limits of each of such lifestyles intuitively, and these scare you. I can't tell you and frankly I don't see how anyone on the internet could.

You're young only once, and not for very long anymore. I'd advice you to try and enjoy it.

[thrwwwa]

> You're young only once, and not for very long anymore. I'd advice you to try and enjoy it.

That's just terrifying. Especially when you have no idea how to enjoy it or if it's even possible for you.

[hachre]

I personally think being young is overrated. But that's just me. Find and do the things that make you shine. I think you might already have found it, you just need a better environment. I can't give you advice where to find it, but I can tell you that working in a startup where everyone around you is as involved as you are yourself is a great feeling. That is probably what you should be going after.

[a8da6b0c91d]

Of those who go on about the glories of youth I sometimes wonder how many of them will spend 15 years eating catfood at the end. It almost always goes with a spendthrift mentality.

[98Windows]

Yeah. I think many people go to therapy nowadays because they feel guilty for not enjoying their life as much as they think they should. Before people used to instead feel bad about being sinful.

I think what you need to do is fully accept your situation and do what you can to improve it. Look for a new job or have you considered doing a PhD? Learn new things, hang out with interesting people. Does your city have a hackspace? If so use the people there to amplify your creative drive. Working alone is less productive I find.

[brc]

Ah, well I can't believe that nobody else has said this...but get over yourself a bit. You've been working for a nano second. You appear to be wondering why nobody has handed you a dream job and smoothed your path to life fulfilment.

Most people working have been on tough projects longer than your entire working life.

Life fulfilment and dreams are very infrequently an outcome of your primary income activity. It's ridiculous to even start looking for it and becoming depressed after a year. Of course jobs are boring, even startup ones, most of the time. My work is occasionally interesting and fin, but it's filled with 90% drudgery of meetings and calls and emails I'd rather not do.

If you want to start something cool, then go do it. If you want to join something cool, go find it. Stop navel gazing and start living. Life is what is going to happen to you while you are hiding in the bedroom.

[paulvs]

Feeling like you're wasting your time when working in the IT industry is common to anyone that has any real dreams in life I think. I'd much rather be working for Space X than making banking apps. I think the only way out if your keen to do your own thing is to get some industry experience, make a company, and if it's good enough to sell, sell it, rinse and repeat.

[dpw]

Are you in London? If not, move to London - it's where most of the start-up jobs and interesting tech jobs in the UK are located.

Also in London, there are also lots of tech meetups. Find ones that interest you. Go to the pub afterwards, meet people with overlapping interests, and find out what they do and where they work. It might lead to finding a more interesting job, a mentor, or just helping to develop a sense of what you can achieve and how to go about it.

Being smart (in the classic CS sense) has little to do with long-term success in the world of work. Make an effort to develop your soft skills.

I think most people find it difficult to split their energy between a full time job and side projects (particularly if your also want a social life, relationships, to get exercise, have non-tech hobbies, and generally be a well-rounded human being). Form a habit where you work on side projects for a regular sustainable amount of time (e.g. 1 hour) every day. By making it a regular habit, it becomes easier to persist even when you don't much feel like it. And if you are not already an early riser, a good way to make this time is to start getting up an hour earlier than you currently do (and go to bed an hour earlier, naturally).

If your job was interesting, but it got boring, then maybe you are someone who needs fresh challenges to stay interested. If so, look for an environment that has that. And if you don't like doing stuff for clients, find a job that doesn't involve client projects.

[andersonmvd]

Allow me to go straight to the point. You don't need to to move or find other company to start doing interesting things. There a bunch of problems waiting to be solved [1] in the world, a lot of open source projects waiting for contributors [2]. There's always a lot of stuff to do, just search it and you'll find it.

Now, regarding your company, first demonstrate that you can do more awesome stuff, then ask for more challenging work or find a cause to work for. If they don't have, search for companies that have and never accept the status quo. Never stop being hungry.

Don't bother moving. You can do it if you are qualified for, but remote work can be as challenging as any other work around the globe. Although I highly recommend it (relocation) to get some experience.

Hope I helped.

[1] https://research.facebook.com/blog/1522692927972019/facebook... [2] http://www.codetriage.com/

[6d0debc071]

> I usually just do stuff that doesn't require any creativity or thinking or coming up with interesting solutions.

You know what I do when I'm in that position? Try to work out how to automate it. Many a boring project has been turned into a more interesting one by trying to make myself unemployed.

Of course, I never pass the thing that'd do that onto the boss, since then I'd be out of a job, but you get idea.

[apandhi]

I'm 20 and in (almost) the same boat. But I'm in the midst of starting a startup (140k users, 2m+ downloads). If you're interested in chatting, shoot me an email at [e-mail]

[codebutler]

I spent a lot of time when I was in my early 20s doing consulting on projects that I wasn't very excited about. It's really easy to get stuck in a bad place and you should feel good that you've identified this as a problem for you so early.

It's so easy to lose confidence in yourself when your surroundings don't make you happy. Don't tell yourself that you aren't smart. Read up about Impostor Syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome). Apply to jobs around the world that you'd enjoy even if think are out of your reach -- you'll be surprised. Companies are starved for talented passionate engineers and will pay for relocation and invest time in training.

I'm happy to chat more, hit me up at [e-mail].

[Mz]

I will suggest that you do two things: First, try to get some perspective. Second, work on looking for another job that is more satisfying.

People are suggesting things like "travel" and "volunteer" in part because those are ways to get a broader view of the world. If your big problem is that you are bored, then, in the grand scheme of things, it isn't that much of a problem. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try to solve it, but it helps to have some perspective. This isn't really a desperate situation.

Last, you mention in one of your replies that your social skills aren't great. Well, if you are going to solve this without a lot of drama, it will help if you can work on that. Since people are saying there are plenty of companies in the same country you are in that would love to have you, networking is one of the ways to find those jobs.

If you get good perspective and don't turn this into a bigger problem than it really is and then come up with a path forward for finding a more satisfactory job, you can solve this in relatively short order. But having perspective will help you avoid creating drama unnecessarily and turning this into a real crisis when it doesn't have to be.

Best of luck.

[leonroy]

My background sounds pretty similar to yours except I was lucky enough to land my first gig outta University at a startup in London.

The work's always been varied and interesting and whilst it has its ups and downs (mainly downs of late) I still enjoy it.

I see a lot of excuses from you on why you can't follow any of the useful suggestions on this page (nothing wrong with that mind) but it does suggest to me that you're at a bit of a loose end but don't want to venture outside your comfort zone just yet...

That's all fine. Don't beat yourself up about it. You say your social skills are lacking, not a problem. You say you're not very smart, again not an issue.

We all feel these things from time to time and we all get depressed. Depression is a marvellous emotion which forces us to confront our situation and realise something has to change.

I have no idea what you need to change but some of the advice given here is great - from attending more Meetups to working on a side project.

There is zero need for you to move to another country. The UK has its fair share of interesting work. Interesting work is not the preserve of academia or Silicon Valley - it's everywhere. If you're feeling adventurous though DO apply for places outside your locality. You'll be surprised how much more potential employers value your skills than you do sometimes...

Either way, have a read of the suggestions here, then re-read. A side project's a great start, the sooner you do it the better. But either way, chin up, don't beat yourself up too much and just have a think about what you want and start taking small steps towards it.

You'll get there.

[jlees]

When you're at university you get used to learning a lot, quickly, under pressure. Learning is fun! Sadly, many jobs have that initial rush of learning and then - once you know what you're doing - it stops. That's hard when you're only recently out of education.

Others have posted links on how to meet UK startups. Perhaps there are meetups or conferences you can attend to get to know some startups, or look at the HN job postings. Startups are fun because there is more learning and challenge, things are often changing and you have to adapt to mistakes. But they have boring bits too. Being at a startup isn't a magic bullet.

Can you take on more responsibility in your job and challenge yourself in new ways? Investigate new technologies to create more efficient solutions to problems you are solving (e.g. continuous deployment, analytics, dashboards, code health, new frameworks, cross-platform development, asynchronous patterns, client-side apps...).

Perhaps your hunger for learning is a sign you should go back into academia. I felt similarly while working in the year after I graduated, so I went back to do a Master's. I think it was the right move for me, but it isn't the right move for everyone.

If you have the finances for it, maybe it's time to quit, travel for a bit, write, relax, and start coding for fun again. But eventually you might have to worry about money, so keep thinking one or two steps ahead.

Finally, another way to achieve fulfilment is to seek mastery elsewhere. Whether it's fitness, gaming, language or other skills, you can mark time at your job while expanding your mind outside of working hours. I had an incredibly boring internship and pretty much the only way I got through it was working on math problems and studying linguistics for fun during my lunch break and evenings.

Good luck!

[thruflo]

For all the cliches and advice and supportive words here there's really only one thing you need to grasp.

No one's going to give it to you. It's like http://whoownsmyavailability.com but s/availability/life.

[Paul_S]

Come to Cambridge or London and work for a startup that appeals to you. Also if you don't mind being exploited you could try and join the games industry. Fun to work for as long as you don't mind the long hours and low wages. What's your specialisation?

[timthorn]

Or Bristol, maybe Southampton. Also maybe look for some hardware component to the work?

[helen842000]

I too graduated in CS from a UK University but 10 years ago. It feels crazy to say that.

The times I've enjoyed working in IT the most is on contracts, being brought in for a specific problem, everyone pulling together and then moving on to something new. Then I get a short break to travel or build my own projects.

I enjoyed my 20's but the biggest thing that stopped me from enjoying it more was money. I had to work to cover food & rent and living from one month to the next means you just have to keep working.

If I had any advice for my 23 year old self it would be to get some healthy savings & exercise a lot. When opportunities arise it means you can say yes. Know exactly how much it costs to live, save day to day but regularly plan for fun.

[namenotrequired]

It sounds like it's time to change jobs. If you don't care much about the money but want to keep learning new things and to be challenged, and would like to with on something that could have a big impact on the world, an ambitious startup should be perfect for you - if you are behind its mission of course.

London has lots of startup jobs that are likely to appeal to you. That said most people I know that lived in London did not stay long. I work in Amsterdam and this city has a lot of great and ambitious startups too, plus everyone here speaks English very well. If you're considering to move, feel free to email me. I'm sure I can help you if you're open to emigrating.

[thrwwwa]

I am open to emigrating, I don't care where I live pretty much. I emigrated to UK for a better education also, I am not a native here.

> London has lots of startup jobs that are likely to appeal to you

What are the best places to search for them?

> It sounds like it's time to change jobs

I think so too. And I have some savings to survive for about 8 months.

[alexjarvis]

> What are the best places to search for them?

http://workinstartups.com

https://www.siliconmilkroundabout.com

In the meantime work on something you enjoy and can point to as a portfolio piece. Go to meetups and try and give a talk about something you care about.

[cpncrunch]

I was in the same position as you -- working at a boring job and looking for something more interesting. I moved to London and did contracting for a few years. Although you can still end up with boring jobs, at least you get to change jobs more often, and you get paid a lot more. jobserve.com is a good place to find contract jobs. There's also a lot of permanent jobs at startups listed on jobserve.

[Osaka]

Look into R+D. I was in the same boat as you. Then I decided to take a look at research, now can't get enough of it. There are government funding for PhD's (Search Department of Education and learning (DEL) Funding.)

[chrisseaton]

I'm British and went from industry back to do a PhD at 25. You don't even need to worry yourself about searching for funding - there is plenty available for CS and I found it was enough to live on even though I'd been used to a grown-up salary.

[radicality]

I'm considering something similar (23 now, studied in Imperial, working now in the US, but missing learning so many new things like I had in undergrad).

Did you experience a large decrease in quality of life? Have you saved up a lot until you started at 25?

[chrisseaton]

I managed to live off the stipend without too much of a problem - but I lived with my wife and she paid the mortgage while I was studying so I suppose I didn't have any accommodation expenses. In my second year I did a six-month internship in the US and came home with a five figure sum which made it a lot easier.

[fsloth]

As an idea: If you are looking for new things, one way to look at it would be to figure out if there is some non-cs domain you would like to learn more about and then find software companies working in that field. Most value adding software development is not that thrilling for the cs aspects of it but because one understands how the work fits into the domain usage.

Don't satisfy for a crap job. If you can't find a calling then settle for an appealing career. Keep looking! And remember to keep your spirits up, and stay healthy.

[Devthrowaway80]

Sounds like you need a more challenging job. The area you work in affects what you'll be doing - like others have suggested, HFT, machine learning, or things that require a lot of actual technical work might be more up your alley.

Also, you're 23. There is stuff outside your 9-5 that you can pursue that might make for a more fulfilling life. If you are really focussed on your career, try making and selling something yourself. You'll very rarely get rich working for somebody else.

[harunurhan]

I am just like you, expect I am little youger and have a little more than a year to finish my degree. Although I am a student, I work as part time developer. Learning new things and working on different projects are so exciting for me and I get bored quickly, if there is no challenge.

So my plan is working at startups which located different countries and cities, for short time periods. Learning, working, traveling at the same time, looks like the least boring option.

[lordnacho]

Are you kidding me? There are loads of startups in London who would love to have you. There's loads of sites where you can find them. Go and chat with some of them, see what excites you, find people you like.

Plenty of firms are working on hard problems as well. Any number of big data type firms and HFT firms do stuff that isn't just MVC CRUD.

It sounds like you need a firm where tech is key though. You can figure that out in two minutes.

[dandelion_lover]

Beside searching for a new job, you can join the community to help and develop FOOS. There were two topics about it recently:

1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9305398

2. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9307255

[djloche]

Make a plan for what you want to do long term. Do you want to start your own tech company? Do you want to open a sandwich shop? Own a bed and breakfast? Sail across the world in a yacht?

Come up with your list of things you want to do.

Most of these things will require money. You are making money right now. Use your job as a way to make progress toward the things you really want to do.

[junto]

You've already touched on it in your comments, but as a UK citizen you are also an EU citizen.

Most Brits don't take any advantage of this wonderful opportunity to travel and WORK wherever you want within the EU with no barriers. They are tech hubs popping up all over the EU. You are also 23 with no ties. Go for it!

[hackerboos]

Easier said than done...

Except for Ireland you have to find a company that tolerates English being used in day-to-day business. Even then, you are going to be handicapped when compared to natives.

[gershwin]

Have you given any thought to volunteering some of your time to teaching local kids or adults how to code?

[thrwwwa]

No, it doesn't really interest me, and I forgot to mention that I have very poor social skills.

[jacquesm]

Those skills tend to get better if you use them more often, just like any other skill.

[yareally]

Agreed. I learned a lot (and reinforced what I already knew) from tutoring my friend a few years younger than me while they were going through their CS degree. Also learned the value of being patient. Those kind of skills go a long way when you move up the ranks from junior to senior developer.

You think you understand a topic, but you really know for sure when you end up having to relate it to someone else in an understandable form. Helps immensely to reinforce your own learning and tell you what you need to brush up on before meeting with them for a mentoring session.

[kenshi]

Then take the time to develop your social skills.

Make it a priority.

They are going to help you more than any technical knowledge will.

[codenoname]

I am also 23 from three years working for a company in EU, work was creative and I enjoyed, but when you work so long somewhere somehow the system they absorb and become part of one. Now I have decided to quit and start something of their own :)

[mruniverse]

What do you like doing in your free time? Watching movies, backpacking, reading, etc. Then see if you can make a living doing it or something related to it. Of course that could lead you to not enjoy it anymore.

[72deluxe]

Travel perhaps.

Sadly, working involves boring tasks now and then, and the resignation that you're making someone else rich! Set your own projects and keep your brain occupied outside work, perhaps with a view to moving on.

[razvvan]

Move to Berlin and find a decent startup. Plenty of challenging jobs but more importantly you'll find there's a much better work-life balance. It's still up to you to put your time to good use.

[67726e]

As someone who has wanted to move to Berlin, are there good resources/ways to connect with tech companies there? Most of the networking I've done has been natural interaction, and I only have so much vacation in a year.

[EugeneOZ]

Write open-source libraries. For example, implement http2 library for Rust - it will not be boring and will be very useful for people.

[gesman]

Find something you love to do.

Then find someone who needs the results of the work that you love.

Then do that work for that "someone" for free.

See what happens.

[strzzz]

Go travel the world. See how people live in in other countries.

[thrwwwa]

I've been in quite a few (about 7) countries, doesn't help much to be honest. Also, I have some money saved, but it would run out pretty fast if I decided to travel somewhere for long.

[twelvenmonkeys]

Learn Go and Go travel the world!

[gargarplex]

www.weworkremotely.com

[wittedhaddock]

How likely is it that you'd come to the US?