[neindanke]

Is what they're doing legal? I'm pretty sure a tourist visa means you can't use it for work (activities for which payment is received or capital is gained), even remote work. I'm told that the Thai government is pretty harsh in punishing such things.

[byoung2]

http://asiancorrespondent.com/125980/thai-immigration-offici...

[neindanke]

That article just confuses me. It says it is ok and then contradicts it a paragraph later. Eg:

"Digital nomads – people working remotely or running online businesses – in Thailand can legally work there on tourist visas"

But one paragraph down:

"It is unlikely that travellers will be granted a re-entry stamp after two or three visa runs. If your passport is stamped “O-I” (out-in) upon arrival, it is unlikely that you will be able to re-enter the country again should you decide to do a visa run"

[ashconnor]

Don't let the article confuse you. It's 100% illegal to work in Thailand on a tourist visa despite the comments of the Chiang Mai immigration office.

http://ashleyconnor.co.uk/blog/2014/09/07/working-in-thailan...

[byoung2]

It is confusing two separate ideas. One is that it is ok to work while on a tourist visa, the other is that doing multiple visa runs (regardless of whether you work) is not ok. The out-in problem is true of many countries and has nothing to do with working.

[vbcr]

Not sure about Thailand, but this is true for USA.

My colleague's wife is on H4 (dependant) visa and prior to coming to USA, she had a job in India. We talked to a lawyer and then with USCIS and both of them confirmed that it is not a possibility that she can work remote here in USA on H4 even though she gets paid in India.

[znq]

What you can do though is travel to the US for business purposes.

[ashconnor]

Business purposes is things like signing contracts and participating in meetings. Not doing actual work.

[znq]

For some people that is their work.

[erkkie]

Anyone doing this should also check what qualifies as business to avoid confusion at the border (there are specific things one is allowed to do and specific things not, IANAL, YMMV).

[znq]

We were there on holidays ;-)

But I know what you're talking and while what we're doing is technically a gray zone, what the government is after is mostly freelancers that basically live in Thailand, but are not paying taxes there and are constantly on a visa run to re-enter the country.

[neindanke]

> We were there on holidays ;-)

No, you stated you were working. From your article's title: "Working Remotely From A Tropical Island In Thailand"

> what we're doing is technically a gray zone

Did you file a tax statement and did you pay any taxes on income earned while you were residing in Thailand?

[znq]

> No, you stated you were working

Noticed the smiley?

Nevertheless, how do you differentiate between holidays and work and where to draw the line? If you're responding to a work emails while being on holidays, does that count towards the taxable income in that country you're visiting?

> Did you file a tax statement and did you pay any taxes on income earned while you were residing in Thailand?

Absolutely. We're not evading taxes. All income is taxed in Spain. And we weren't residing in Thailand. We were only visiting it and happened to also do some things that were related to our business back home in Europe. The work we did had nothing to do with Thailand itself.

I'm not an international tax specialist, but at least from a moral point of view I don't see that we did something wrong.

In European countries for example you only become a tax resident if you spend more than 183 days there.

EDIT: formatting

[ashconnor]

>In European countries for example you only become a tax resident if you spend more than 183 days there.

Pity Thais cannot easily come to Spain and work illegally. Despite what you've said it's blatant public abuse of the tourist visa system in Thailand.

Honestly when I see blog posts like this my opinion of the author and company goes down considerably. Breaking the rules and publishing the fact that you are makes me question what other grey areas you'd operate in.

[geomark]

Yes, what they did violates immigration law in Thailand. And the comments of a senior immigration official don't change the law; they just indicate that at least in that region the enforcement is likely to be rather lax.

But there's really nothing to get bent about. No locals were out of a job. They lived there as tourists so paid a lot more into the local economy than locals, including a lot more taxes in the form of VAT on all their purchases.

The only real issue is that they were at risk even if they didn't sense it, because what happens now and then is someone gets pissed off (usually another foreigner) and rats someone out. Then the police see an opportunity to collect an extortionate "fine" before they get deported.

[hingisundhorsa]

> No locals were out of a job

Could you explain how you formed that conclusion?

> They lived there as tourists so paid a lot more into the local economy than locals

How did you determine that? I've lived as a hippie in India, similar to what Steve Jobs did. I spent 0 money and lived off the temple welfare system. I was exploiting the generosity of people who had a thousandth the resources and welfare that I had. I wasn't alone. There were hundreds, if not thousands of other Westerners doing similar things.

[znq]

Actually Thai people can do exactly the same.

While from a legal perspective it might be all correct what you're saying, I think that most people simply have more important matters to worry about.

For example, it's also illegal to cross a red traffic light as a pedestrian at 3am in the night on a deserted street. That doesn't mean that it is immoral or that it causes harm to anyone.

And I wouldn't even want to know all the "illegal" things you're doing that you are not even aware of. Just saying.

[wila]

> Actually Thai people can do exactly the same.

Not really. Thai people do not easily get a tourist visa for visiting Europe. There's a whole bunch of constraints to keep them out.

[ashconnor]

My beef is not that you worked illegally in Thailand. It's the fact that you wrote this up, didn't mention the fact that it's not above aboard, which promotes others to emulate you without warning, and published under your own name which is foolish at best and could end up with you being deported at worse.

There's been around eight of these posts of 'Digital Nomads' working in Thailand and not one of them bothered to mention that they were breaking the law.

[rockyleal]

I wholeheartedly agree with you.

[hingisundhorsa]

> at least from a moral point of view I don't see that we did something wrong.

You did. You lied on your Thai tourist visa application form. It explicitly said: "I hereby declare that the purpose of my visit to thailand is for pleasure or transit only and that in no case shall I engage myself in any profession or occupation while in the country"

[dataker]

Technically, if they don't receive money in a Thai bank, it'd be both hard and unfeasible to be punished.

Don't wanna state the obvious,but even If you're coding(could claim to be open-souce work), it's not like the police is gonna spy on you.

[stephenr]

Any form of "work" (defined as exertion of effort from memory) is deemed illegal without a work permit - international volunteers need one just as much as those of us working for a commercial entity.

Re "spying on you": immigration police have conducted "raids" on coworking spaces, not to mention the potential for upset/disgruntled locals/competitors/whoever to report you.

[wila]

> could claim to be open-source work

Sounds reasonable , but it doesn't work that way. Work for free or charity work still counts as work and is no less illegal.

See also: http://www.thaivisa.com/462-0.html (the article is from 2006, but that law hasn't changed)