[jobposter1234]

While I know you are being sarcastic, I have a serious question: do you believe that choice should enter the equation?

No choice in getting old, or ill, or injured. But people (Americans) sure have a choice in getting pregnant.

[Retra]

No, they don't. Some people have to get pregnant or humanity collapses. If you think that is an acceptable outcome, then your moral compass is so far off that your opinion wouldn't merit any respect.

[jobposter1234]

Holy hyperbole, Batman! When did we go from my original statement, "I'm sure it's not shameful. It might bug you, but I don't see it as something worthy of shame" into the utter annihilation of humanity, and me as a bad person for wanting that?

It's kind of weird that humanity has managed to procreate without extended, government-funded maternity leave up to this point, isn't it?

(I'd also like to mention this discussion is scoped to US Governmental legislation, NOT the debate over humanity's continued existence.)

My original point was that it's not shameful to not provide this entitlement. Somehow we managed to go completely off the rails into zero-population Armageddon.

I would also ask that you tone down the rhetoric, personal attacks, and broad generalizations for the sake of civility.

[fsloth]

"It's kind of weird that humanity has managed to procreate without extended, government-funded maternity leave up to this point, isn't it?"

Effectively without supported maternal leave, men have a financial leverage over women. One might find this problematic or not, depending on political inclinations. Personally I prefer a society that attempts to balance out this leverage.

[Retra]

I wasn't responding to your original point, but to the comment I actually responded to. Reproduction is not a choice if some of us must do it.

Like, I don't have to drink water, I can just eat meat and get my water from that. But it would be absurd to suggest that "drinking water is a choice" because there are alternatives that I could personally take.

This is a Hobson's Choice: a choice between one option. You could wrangle that kind of argument into justification for anything! Slavery: "You chose to be a slave because you didn't run away." Rape: "You chose to get raped because you didn't stay inside." Pregnancy: "You chose to get pregnant because nobody actively forced you to have a baby."

Never-mind any notion of practicality. Forget about the fact that these things literally need to happen. It's a choice because you don't agree with the politics.

[jobposter1234]

I feel you are collapsing societal-scope with individual-scope.

Individuals choose whether or not to get pregnant when a man ejaculates inside a woman without protection. If you wish to do that, and bear the fetus to term, I do not wish to pay for your decision.

Individuals should bear the burden of their own decisions, not me.

[Retra]

Everyone else already bears the burden of your decisions. You don't get to determine which burdens you bear, only how you choose to bear them.