[pyre]

The general stance that "you broke the law, now you're a criminal" may be technically correct, but most people issuing such statements group "criminals" into a singular group and feel that the serial murderer and the child rapist are no different than the guy that forgot he had an orange in his car when crossing the border. "You've broken the rules of society, you are no better than a vagabond!"

In light of this, how can one not lose faith in the law when so many laws that punish people for stupid things are on the books just because a bunch of religious people want to force everyone to "follow their religion" to a minor extent or how the system is setup in a way that encourages government prosecutors to view the people in the cases that are put on their desk as little more than pawns in a game to "make a name" for themselves?

[There's also the fact that judges/lawyers try to hide the idea of jury nullification from juries too...]

[tedunangst]

Welcome to life in a democracy. Stupid people voting for stupid laws. Why can't we just put the smart people in charge?

[logfromblammo]

Because everyone at the 51st percentile and below for intelligence forms a voting majority, and systematically disenfranchising people based on their intellect would invite abuse of the voter qualifications systems.

So we can't just put the smart people in charge. We have to slowly educate the stupid people out of existence, until the dumbest 51% are finally capable of determining the best people to make decisions, based primarily on their aptitude, rather than on their popularity.

When voting for county dogcatcher, for instance, people would look for "D.V.M." after the candidate's name, rather than "(D)" or "(R)". When people want to hire me, they look at my resume, not my hairline, lapel pin, or party affiliation.

Hey, here's an idea! What's the political science equivalent of FizzBuzz? Whatever it is, you can't get on the ballot unless you can do that thing, live, unaided, and in front of witnesses.

[Dirlewanger]

Because all the smart people are smart enough to see how much of a soul-sucking cluster-fuck politics is. That, and one could argue that if they're put on this earth to live a life of happiness, how could one ever possibly achieve this through a life in politics, knowing what they are getting themselves into?

[FireBeyond]

Ehhh, that's a hand-wringing, self-serving generalization.

"We have the answers. We're just not soulless enough to want to go through (and perhaps change, in the process) the effort to supply them and make them help."

Platitudes rarely change things.

[Dirlewanger]

Whether you think so or not, personal incentives motivate people in their careers, salary being one of the biggest and weightiest. I'm not saying there aren't that many personal incentives to a life of politics, but at face value isn't exactly the most attractive career path.

[FireBeyond]

Politics isn't just about being smart, though. It's about being 'charming' (sometimes for better, sometimes for worse), charismatic, a good communicator (notwithstanding the teams of people behind the scenes to help with this).

I get that it's not everyone's desired path (it's certainly not mine), I just think that saying "many of us are smart enough to have the answers, we just choose not to get involved in politics" is perhaps an... underestimation... of the complexity of some of society's problems.

[spacemanmatt]

Some idiots think that's exactly what they did.

[ianstallings]

Well let me clarify what I said above a little more to give you some perspective of where I'm coming from. I'm not making a moral judgement of what you did. I'm making a statement of fact - society will punish you for not following the law. And if you know that up front and you willingly ignore it because you think you're in the right, well don't be surprised when you come into conflict with law enforcement and authority. Take that responsibility on your shoulders, because you chose to act a way that would get you locked up.

[pyre]

> Take that responsibility on your shoulders, because you chose to act a way that would get you locked up.

Would you say this (with a straight face) to Alan Turing in 1952?

"What did you expect having a private homosexual relationship in a society where that is illegal? Just take the chemical castration or the jail sentence. Why are you getting so upset about this?"

[ianstallings]

Yeah that totally applies here. Because all situations are alike and all statements apply to every situation. All thoughts that I have can be summed up above. This is simpleton thinking. Sorry I'm not falling for your completely irrelevant shit.

[jacquesm]

Leave it to a hacker to be given two options and picking a third.

[rayiner]

Drug opponents aren't just some religious nuts though. Aside from marijuana, the overwhelming majority of the population supports keeping drugs illegal. Support for legalizing things like cocaine is under 10%. And the homosexuality reference above is a red-herring. Nobody ever broke into someone's house in a state of diminished cognition because of gay sex.

[jqm]

Ya, well given the propaganda this is hardly surprising...

"Nobody ever broke into someone's house in a state of diminished cognition because of gay sex...."

I... wouldn't be too sure about that.

[pyre]

> Drug opponents aren't just some religious nuts though.

You're making a comment in the context of the article. All of the parent comments to mine made much broader statements in response to the root comment that was a more general statement. "If you break the law, then you have no right to complain when you go to jail." This is what I was responding to. It touches more than just drug law.

[sliverstorm]

"If you break the law, then you have no right to complain when you go to jail." This is what I was responding to.

You can say whatever you like when you are jailed. But I have limited sympathy, which I reserve for true victims of circumstance. You (usually) knew it was illegal when you did it.

It's fine to disagree with the law, to protest it, to seek change. But "doing it anyway and hoping you don't get caught" is not an attempt at civil reform.

BUT you do have a right to object to unreasonable punishment. That's absolutely within your rights. "His sentence is way too long for his crime" is a discussion I'm happy to have.

[pyre]

Do you have the same lack of sympathy for homosexuals living in repressive societies? If they are not willing to be stoned to death for protesting the (often religion-based) law are they just a bunch of hypocrites?

Even in less repressive societies it was not that uncommon for drawing attention to your homosexual nature to make you a lightning rod for hate crimes. And the reaction of the rest of society wasn't "I'm appalled that such a thing would happen." It was, "What did he expect announcing that he was gay?" In the face of such attitudes, you blame the person being oppressed for not wanting to fling themselves under the bus?

[realusername]

That's mainly an issue with the poverty of the English language, in most languages, they are categories of criminals and they are called differently.

[adventured]

That's blatantly not true. The English language is overflowing with options, at different levels of character or crime, when it comes to describing people.

Murderer, killer, rapist, pedophile, wife beater, convict, criminal, felon, thief, liar, embezzler, con artist, forger, bum, hobo, dishonest, deceitful, traitor, unethical, petty criminal, cheat, scammer, scam artist, pick pocket, snake oil salesman, chiseler, crooked, unfaithful, drunk, addict.

And a thousand more various categories to toss people into (some refer to crimes, some refer to moral character or life situation, and some blend multiple attributes depending on context).

If a person is a rapist, you call them a rapist and not a murderer, and people know the difference. If a person is a convicted thief, you can call them a petty criminal, and nobody would confuse that with being a serial killer.

[realusername]

Oh yeah sure, there is tons of words to describe criminals, but the problem is the word "criminal" itself works for all of them, if you look at the news and how people speak, you never see those words, you only see "it's a crime to do something" or "this guy is a "criminal".