[Udik]

Ah, and the fact that Israel keeps Gaza under a total embargo, flattens it every two years or so, killing thousands of people - civilians for the great majority, and children- that doesn't play a role, huh? It's just poverty and ignorance... FFS.

[golergka]

Well, an objective, educated person would link this reaction to the action that prompt it.

[Udik]

And the action that prompted it to the action of the other side that prompted it before.. ad infinitum. The only way out of this loop is to ask yourself "who's occupying whose territory? Who's preventing the others from becoming a state? And who does the most killing"? And for all three questions, the answer is always Israel.

[golergka]

The questions that people sharing your position unfortunately don't ask themselves are different. Try "What actions can Israel do to change it" and "what will this result in", for starters.

Try to put yourself in Israel's place. Just imagine it for a minute. Israel disengaged from Gaza 10 years ago. What did it get in return? More security? Less attacks? Better relationship with organisations governing the territory? Would answers to these questions encourage you (you're in Israel place, remember) to make more steps like this?

[tek-cyb-org]

If I were israel, I would say, I have to figure out what I want. Do I want the territory from the river to the sea? if so, we annex all the land and it becomes 1 person/1 vote and you have to accept that all the refugees return to the land. Israel doesnt want this because there will be an arab majority (I wonder how that happened...). That's what I would do if I were israel. The Other option is 2 states (which is actually what is written in international law btw), 1967 boarders with east Jerusalem as the palestinian capital, stop occupation and remove all settlers, checkpoints, military bases, etc from palestinian territories and maybe no right of return to to refugees who's houses and land were stolen inside of what is now called israel. They will return to palestine 1967 boarder.

How about we start there. No justice, no peace.

[golergka]

Palestinians ans Gazas will be able to get everything they want from Israel if they follow two steps:

1) Get a government that can be trusted to follow on promises

2) Promise to stop trying to kill us

That's pretty much it. We don't need the land, we don't need the walls, we don't need missiles.