[sjwright]

No, very few countries come close to that ratio. The poster-child for widespread gun ownership, Switzerland, still only has half as many guns per capita[0] as the US. They also have laws that prohibit most people from carrying loaded guns. The result is a gun homicide rate less than 1/5th that of the US per capita.[1]

Yes, intrinsically bad. It's pretty clear to anyone who doesn't live in a gun "bubble". Number one cause of death by gun? Suicide. Watch that YouTube clip[2] in full; it summarises my opinion quite well. The second amendment makes sense in the era of muskets, but in the present day only serves to make everyday life less safe, and police officers more Ferguson-ey.

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_co...

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-re...

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP3HJVp3n9c

[jessaustin]

If the attempt is to understand the roots of homicide, rather than just bash one nation or another, it's more instructive to look at homicides [0], rather than homicides of a particular flavor. A careful look at that list will make it clear that elevated homicide rates are a legacy of colonization, at least as much as legal policy. Those in the Americas or Africa can't really be blamed that they were colonized by Europeans. Therefore, nations in the bottom, say, third of the table for those continents really aren't doing such a bad job.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentiona...

[sjwright]

If your argument is that America's problems are caused by Europe, that's pretty embarrassing.

[ptaipale]

Well, I didn't read the argument like that. More like that the homicide rates are a legacy of the process of colonization; in a country that was first colonies and then a nation expanding across the North American continent, sometimes meeting hostile original inhabitants who were mercilessly and violently overrun, there was violence, and that violence necessitated self-defence, which in turn means the people traditionally rely on guns they use themselves, not the authorities and legal process - because the authorities weren't there.

Plus that in Europe, the powers-that-be have largely wanted to avoid revolutions, which means that the public's access to firearms as well as right to self-defence is restricted and police, gendarmerie and similar organisations have true monopoly on (lawful) violence. America, in turn, is a child of revolution and is revering the overthrowing of powers-that-be who were perceived as tyrants.

That's just my understanding of the history how the United States has come to this situation, not a value statement that it's how things should be.

(Just for comparison, compare to other countries colonized at the same time or earlier, like Brazil, Mexico, Argentina, Venezuela, Honduras, Colombia, Nicaragua - they all have much higher homicide rates than the U.S.)

[refurb]

They also have laws that prohibit most people from carrying loaded guns.

Not sure I understand. Switzerland has 1/2 the guns, but nowhere near 50% of the US' homicide rate. Are you saying the ability to legally carry a gun is the reason for the difference?

The states that legally allow carrying a concealed weapon without a permit (VT, AK) have some of the lowest murder rates of all states.

[sjwright]

The reason is that Swiss society doesn't fetishize gun ownership in quite the same way. Nobody in Switzerland is going to the mall carrying a handgun for "protection" and nobody would be so stupid to ever think that was a good idea.

As for concealed carry permit states, VT and AK have murder rates remarkably consistent with geographical neighbors. You are dead wrong to claim they are somehow special.