[RowanH]

It would be an interesting experiment to measure actual alertness and ability to react.... I would hazard that while you think you might be alert you're probably less so as because you're not actively driving your brain is not ready to react in the same way as if it's constantly processing while driving.

Case in point - I've got two cars, our boring diesel daily driver and 380hp:600kg track day weapon which you really have to be mentally prepared to drive (no driver aids at all). Headed to the track one Saturday morning in said track car, a car in front of me pulled out of the lane to avoid a big a-- bird in the road. Partly because I have to be alert in that car and partly the car itself I managed to treat the bird more like an obstacle course and (narrowly) avoid it. The dumb thing started running off the road then back into my lane(!). Anyway the point is in my Corolla no way would I have reacted in time, while I think I'm conscientious I know my alertness level is way higher in the track day car - it's low, small, has a brutally fast steering rack - a single moment of inattention you'd get away with in Corolla would see you in the ditch in the other car. 3 hours drive in both cars and one of them I'm pretty happy to have a little break afterwards!

A byproduct of the environment, I think autonomous cars/controls are going to reduce the level of awareness and concentration and you'll have some pretty nasty "I don't know what happened" crashes when things happen that the systems can't respond to and human has to drive out of it.

Of course the flip side of the coin, and I can fully appreciate is the reduction of crashes where people doze off and plough right into the back of other cars. So I guess it's a risk reduction numbers game of which is the lesser of two evils?

[brc]

I read something a while back where a rental company trialled renting cars with the emergency stop option - to stop, as you say 'people going to sleep and plowing into the back of cars'.

The results were surprising even to them I think - the crash rate went way, way down. Seems that a ton of accidents are of the 'I wasn't paying attention in traffic' type.

As the driver of a sports car and a luxo barge, I totally agree with you about the different levels of alertness required. It's not until you get out of a sports car do you realise how much you were concentrating. I think it's mainly the bumpier ride and the twitchy steering that forces focus. You're essentially never, ever driving with two fingers on the wheel.

[reneherse]

I was thinking of a similar possible problem during my commute this morning, not with automated driving but with automatic equipment and systems in general. Does convenience breed mental laziness and/or decay? In our increasingly automated and comfortable existence, what experiences confront us with the need for high focus and alertness, or systematic problem solving? (Speaking of humans in general, not just engineers and other professionals who benefit from this kind of activity in their work.) So many things have been reduced (usually delightfully so) to point, click and enjoy.

Some physical environments for advanced age folks are designed with features to promote extra physical exertion, to help maintain the occupants' fitness, which in turn promotes safety. (Better balance, fewer falls.)

Similarly, we might consider building-in a baseline requirement of mental activity for the operation of certain systems. In the short term, this might increase alertness in the moment, as in the semi-autonomous driving example. (In that case, perhaps a UI that requires maintaining a certain amount of eye motion across the road, or particular posture.) In the long term, perhaps other (more challenging?) in-built exercises will promote mental and neurological health in people whose work and play would otherwise fail to be stimulating.

[agumonkey]

There was an article about crash statistics on roads that used to be surrounded by tree lanes [1]. There were as many accidents with or without the trees. Removing the trees avoids the opportunities to crash into them, so now people drive faster and carelessly.

I also think stress, in healthy dose, is necessary. I'd bet heavy on decay as a result of removing it. Until the potential self-driving car future where people won't even have to think about driving and will find other ways to be proactive.

[1] http://a395.idata.over-blog.com/1/74/49/41/SPECIALITES-GOURM...

[eru]

Same number of crashes, but people can drive faster? That's a win in my book.

[agumonkey]

Heh, fair point, we have different value systems. I'm for same speed / lower accidents, especially dumber ones. These days speed gets all the rage but in my mind we should aim for lower tempo, more density.

[eru]

Oh, lower accidents, same speed is also good. Anything that improves on the pareto frontier!

[robotresearcher]

Crash outcomes are worse at high speeds.

[eru]

That's true. So the sum of outcomes is worse here?

[mikeash]

I've been using radar cruise control for a few weeks now (waiting for lane keeping to come this summer as promised!) and I feel much more alert than without it. Obviously it could be an illusion, since the brain is really bad at evaluating itself, but it seems like I'm able to devote more attention to my surroundings and develop better situational awareness when I can stop worrying about the second-by-second job of keeping a safe distance from the car in front of me.

[toolz]

Personally I'll take the 5 edge case crashes a (insert time period) over the 10,000 any day. Not know anything about autonomous vehicles, though, I wonder if the edge case wrecks tend to be less serious simply because the safest choice will always be made in time of doubt I would think.