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by beachstartup 4109 days ago
> It's an uphill battle, but one day there will be one female engineer for every male engineer, one female PM for every male PM. And no woman will be afraid to go and do her job.

okay, i'll jump on this grenade.

will there one day also be one male nurse for every female nurse? one male elementary school teacher for one female elementary school teacher? or one male social worker for every female one? receptionist? hair stylist?

how about one female oil rig roughneck for every male roughneck? one female coal miner for every male? how about plumber, or roofer, or underwater welder? and garbage truck drivers?

what about the female civil engineers? structural engineers? physical plant engineers? construction foremen? these people build things too, arguably things even more real-er than stupid smartphone apps.

it's funny, back when programming computers and managing tech projects was (perceived as) low status work for nerds who didn't fit in anywhere else, i didn't see much if any hullaballoo over the lack of females in these roles. now that all of a sudden everyone including celebrities spends their entire day glued to the internet like a bad crack habit and people are getting rich off ones and zeroes, it's all of a sudden a real big deal and really super duper important. like i said, funny.

6 comments

> it's funny, back when programming computers and managing tech projects was (perceived as) low status work for nerds who didn't fit in anywhere else, i didn't see much if any hullaballoo over the lack of females in these roles. now that all of a sudden everyone including celebrities spends their entire day glued to the internet like a bad crack habit and people are getting rich off ones and zeroes, it's all of a sudden a real big deal and really super duper important. like i said, funny.

I think you're lacking a bit of perspective here. At first, when it was considered routine, rote work, it was mostly women who were programmers (you can find contemporaneous articles saying it's appropriate work for women because programming is basically like preparing a dinner). It was only as companies started to realize the importance and difficulty of the work that women were largely driven out.

Women were not "driven out". The job requirements changed. What you're referring to as programming was more what we would call data entry now.
When she does it it's data entry; when he does it it's programming?

The blatant unrepentant sexism in this thread, not just you but a bunch of other people, is disturbing.

No, the male programmers back then were doing data entry too. It mainly has to do with the transition from punch cards to digital storage. A "programmer" was someone who entered a program or data into a computer. The definition of the role changed as computers did.
it's funny, back when programming computers and managing tech projects was (perceived as) low status work

You do realize that back when being a "computer" (look up the original definition) and programmer were low-status jobs, they were primarily held by women, don't you?

They were low status jobs because they were data entry positions. I mention this elsewhere in the thread but the definition of "programmer" changed over time from someone who enters the program into a computer (initially through punch cards) to someone who designs the actual software the computer runs.
you're not getting my point - it doesn't matter what they were called, it was a low status job. that's why nobody cared whether they came or went.

back in the day, women only had low status jobs. that's the point. they were secretaries, assistants, computer programmers, etc. now they're PR executives, bankers, lawyers, etc. the times changed, not the job.

> will there one day also be one male nurse for every female nurse? one male elementary school teacher for one female elementary school teacher? or one male social worker for every female one? receptionist? hair stylist?

Sexists say this every time the subject comes up on HN. There are programmes in each of those industries to reduce the gender imbalance.

Have you searched for those things? There are lots of campaigns to get more women in those jobs... just google the job title and more women or even feminism.

Example: http://www.rigzone.com/news/oil_gas/a/135815/API_Study_Getti... https://jobs.telegraph.co.uk/article/fancy-commuting-by-heli... http://www.womeninmining.org.uk/

those sites aren't talking about the actual mining, and roughnecking. did you even read the copy you linked to?
I have no idea how you come to that conclusion.

Rigzone:

> Another finding from the studies was that most women will go into white-collar jobs, but there will also be a large number of energy jobs available in blue-collar areas. Several jobs, such as welding, fall into this category, and they offer good salaries, but women typically do not pursue jobs in this area. In part, this could be because there are comparatively few women currently in these areas, so it is difficult for other women to see themselves doing these jobs. WIM

> Created in 2006, WIM (UK) now counts over 1,300 members, from all corners of mining-related businesses and professions.

Exactly. This is what I also see. We're having the discussion about equality because the field is high-status. No one is asking why waste collectors are mostly men - because most people would like to avoid this line of work when possible.
To add to your list-- let's get gender equality in prison too! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._incarceration_rates_1...

//edit flippant attitude aside, there is real discrimination happening here.

> One important result from Table 6 is that females receive even shorter sentences relative to men than whites relative to blacks. The discrimination literature generally argues that females are objects of discrimination and receive worse outcomes. In sentencing, however, women receive better outcomes, consistent with women’s being treated paternalistically in court. Although some contend that the sentencing guidelines harm women,58 studies have usually concluded that females are sentenced more leniently than males.59

http://people.terry.uga.edu/mustard/sentencing.pdf

And if you have a philosophy of "equal outcomes" not just "equal opportunity", you need to think hard about how equal outcomes would look in all scenarios.