[smtucker]

>Next comes one of the worst and one of the best parts of D&D’s character system. D&D’s Race system is, frankly, kind of gross. The idea that a person’s race tells you something about their character is a sign of the racist elements in the fantasy tradition before and around D&D.

...Really?

This type of thought coming from MIT makes me question my sanity.

[Apocryphon]

If one is examining D&D and fantasy tropes in the context of society's attitudes towards race at large, as well as Tolkien's cultural milieu

> If you read Tolkein, it’s difficult to escape the conclusion that the tall pale people from the north are good and the dark ugly people from the south are bad. This reproduces the attitudes of the colonial era in which Tolkein came of age and its one of the worst aspects of his legacy (and that of many other contemporary and prior fantasy writers).

It seems rather par for the course. And it makes sense. In both fantasy and sci-fi, inhuman species are often caricatured by their "race" and usually don't get enough time to flesh out three-dimensional characters. Because it's hard to imagine completely alien societies with personalities that span as full as range as humanity's.

[jeffwass]

Clearly y'all have not heard the fine alternative audio commentary for Fellowship of the Ring by Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky : http://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/unused-audio-commentary-b...

It's really a joke, but hysterically brilliant.

(Edit - including a snippet of the 'commentary' below):

ZINN: You’ve spoken to me before about Mordor’s lack of access to the mineral wealth that the Dwarves control.

CHOMSKY: If we’re going to get into the socio-economic reasons why certain structures develop in certain cultures… it’s mainly geographical. We have Orcs in Mordor — trapped, with no mineral resources — hemmed in by the Ash Mountains, where the “free peoples” of Middle Earth can put a city, like Osgiliath, and effectively keep the border closed.

ZINN: Don’t forget the Black Gate. The Black Gate, which, as Tolkien points out, was built by Gondor. And now we jump to the Orcs chopping down the trees in Isengard.

CHOMSKY: A terrible thing the Orcs do here, isn’t it? They destroy nature. But again, what have we seen, time and time again?

ZINN: The Orcs have no resources. They’re desperate.

CHOMSKY: Desperate people driven to do desperate things.

ZINN: Desperate to compete with the economic powerhouses of Rohan and Gondor.

[rbf_]

Haha!

[walshemj]

Apart from the point where Sam muses about that specific point - expecting Heroic fantasy to be the same as a modern day booker prize novel is not helpful.

Just as a lot of the tropes of classical Athenian Theatre are alien to us nowadays doesn't mean its not great art.

[Apocryphon]

I'm not disputing that the works of Tolkien are classics immemorial. I'm just saying that it's always good to take note of the biases of any creator- and they needn't be biases that run counter to "political correctness", either.

Specifically to race in fantasy, I agree that LoTR wasn't really the place for that. However, D&D is actually the perfect place- RPG sourcebooks are expected to worldbuild, and describe fantasy worlds in detail. So it's a useful thing to think of when exploring an RPG.

[walshemj]

Id agree but 4th and 5th very much went down the what role your building the character for (tank dps healer controller etc) and stopped some of the more fun parts coming up with a concept and building character to suit.

[mesozoic]

So are they trying to say an Orc could be just as good of a ballerina as an Elf? This is much more likely to be true in 5th edition anyway (which they chose) than 2nd edition where things like Dwarf wizards can't even exist. So we have made some progress in the realm of D&D racism (should probably be specism anyway though)

[herbig]

Agreed.

"Dwarves are good at building things not because of some essential genetic racial qualities, but because they are raised in a culture that values building and passes on a certain set of traditional practices around it."

Dwarves (and Elves) can also see in the dark and can live for many hundreds of years. In many ways a character's race is a set of advantages derived from genetic qualities.

This isn't race in a human racial sense. The word "race" is used, when biologically speaking it should likely be species.

[keithgabryelski]

which part? that racist elements exist in a game that characterizes and increases/decrease stats depending on race or that different races in D&D simply don't operate well together?

these all seem true to me these all seem racist to me these all seem reasonable given the fantasy aspect of D&D and what I am used to from stories

[thedz]

Why?

It's a fairly common criticism of fantasy—that entire races and ethnic groups are pretty commonly stereotyped.

[jonesetc]

Because D&D races might as well be called species. These are not ethnicities, they are entirely different biologies. So having a problem with D&D races stems from an oversensitivity to the word race.

[shit_parade]

wait until he realizes the inherit classicism that exists between wizards and fighters.