[stcredzero]

> There are lots of women who are coerced into prostitution, either directly or structurally.

Illegality can make it harder for women who are vulnerable to such coercion to seek legal help. No one entirely sane relishes tangling with the law. I remember reading about a situation in Germany, where women using unemployment job seeking services were being pressured to go to prostitution job interviews.

Would this be a problem if there was no social stigma attached to the profession? Perhaps. I'd think it would be wise for the law to treat that particular a profession a little differently, however. (As in the German example.)

>> Of course other women don't like it, but that has nothing to do with "trafficking" or "violence". They don't like it because it reduces the amount of power they have over men.

> That's a bunch of hyperbolic crap too, though.

There's a world of difference between the fluffy and cheerful young woman in suburban Arizona who was interviewed on Penn & Teller's show and an often homeless urban street walker with a dependence on drugs. (Not to mention women trafficked across national borders.) Women who have very little socio-economic power may well be coerced or feel trapped by their circumstances in any line of work. So it's no wonder that a profession of illegal status carries extra complications.

As usual, what is one "issue" in name is actually a half dozen different issues, with socio-economic status as one of a number of differentiating factors.

There is such violence. There is such trafficking. There are also matters of gender politics and the economics of social structures influencing morality. The only hyperbola here is claiming each part is the whole. Blind men...elephant...blah de blah...

[brazzy]

> I remember reading about a situation in Germany, where women using unemployment job seeking services were being pressured to go to prostitution job interviews.

Except that's complete bullshit. There was one case where a job seeker got a suggestion to apply for a job serving drinks in a brothel and one where an escort job got into their database of open jobs. Both were considered a mistake and against policy which says that sex-related work is only to be offered on the initiative of the job seeker.

[_bfhp]

There is no "social stigma" to prostitution afaik. I keep seeing people (mostly men) assert this as gospel truth, but it's an extremely common phenomenon around the world. I'm going to need sources on the claim that there is some stigma.

[stcredzero]

There is no "social stigma" to prostitution afaik.

https://www.google.com/search?q=social+stigma+prostution+nor...

EDIT: "Social stigma" that looks like, sounds like, and feels like social stigma passes the "duck test." It essentially is social stigma. It doesn't matter so much for the question of its existence who in particular it originates with.

[_bfhp]

You could also say that adultery has a social stigma, but you see it everywhere, even from the most conservative of men. I would argue that this is not "social stigma", but rather a different conception of controlling women. To the aging, minority group of conservative men who are supposedly "against" prostitution, women are supposed to be private property, not public property.

[stcredzero]

"Social stigma" that looks like, sounds like, and feels like social stigma passes the "duck test." It essentially is social stigma. It doesn't matter so much for the question of its existence who in particular it originates with. I've met way too many young people who have strong feelings against prostitution to think you are correct, however.

[_bfhp]

I think the URL is yourfallacyis dot com slash anecdotal? And maybe those young people were against prostitution because they believed it to be harmful to women as a class and involves extreme violence to individual women, whose stories you can find everywhere -- did you ask them?

But yes, if we define "social stigma" so broadly that it includes legitimate concern for individuals and groups, there is also social stigma against pedophilia, I guess.

[stcredzero]

You're weirdly defining "social stigma" as only including stigma which is unjust? As used in common speech, there is indeed "social stigma" against pedophiles. The third time someone tries the trick of a contrarian and unconventional personal definition of a word to put words into someone's mouth to create a false impression of an unsavory position, it's time to simply break off the interaction.

[anigbrowl]

If you're not trolling then you're painfully naive. I find it impossible to reconcile this with your other comment elsewhere in this subthread.

[_bfhp]

What makes you say this? Did you read my comment to stcredzero below?

[anigbrowl]

I did, and your comment referencing Gail Dines. It seems to me that you're way over-reliant on theory to the point that you're missing the forest for the trees. Try pretending to to people outside your social circle that you are engaged in prostitution, or dating a prostitute, or variations on that fictional theme.

[_bfhp]

The social attitute toward being a prostitute is another thing entirely. I was talking about "social stigma" against using prostitutes.

In most contexts "outside of my social circle", "sex" itself is generally seen as humorous/inappropriate topic, for reasons that I don't think are due to sex being seen as shameful or worthy of stigma, although many claim that this is the case. So if I did what you suggest, there would be confounding variables, would there not?

I think if my boss and I (he counts as outside my circle, no?) were both drunk in a bar, and I mentioned using a prostitute, his jaw would stay well off of the floor. I think this is true of most men, even the conservative Republicans ones who act otherwise in more "family" type situation. I will suggest that you try it, maybe I'm wrong.