[whysonot]

Agreed. I think these games teach its players harmful life lessons too. They're rewarded for spending the most money (like GoW) or for showing up (like an MMO). That's not how you get good at things in real life.

I've been a (relatively serious) gamer since I was a kid. My parents always thought it was a waste of time. But I think I learned more about dedication and growth playing WC3 than I did playing sports. I definitely would not feel that way had I played GoW instead.

[ryanelkins]

I can see where you're coming from but I think you're oversimplifying it. Spending money and showing up ARE ways that you CAN get good at things. They might not be the only ways or even the most important ways but they are definitely ways.

No matter how skilled you are you can only get so far in life without spending any money. You'll definitely lag behind less skilled people that are willing or able to spend money. I don't like in app purchases myself either but even I can recognize when a timely purchase can have a big payoff. Sure, some games make to too easy to pay to win, but that's a balance each company has to discover.

Likewise, sometimes a big part of success IS just showing up. Much of luck is putting yourself in a position to take advantage of situations when they arise. Even in MMO type of games - I've seen plenty of people go from terrible to pretty good just by showing up enough and learning how to play.

Of course, by themselves, neither of these are good indicators of success and perhaps they are overvalued in some games, but they are definitely applicable to real life.

[FanaHOVA]

"They're rewarded... for showing up (like an MMO). That's not how you get good at things in real life."

It really is though. If you show up every day and put in the work, you WILL get better at whatever you're doing. That's also something your colleagues and the people who surround you appreciate, see Cal Ripken, Jr. for example. He wasn't an outstanding player, but he didn't miss a single game for 16 years, he showed up every day, no matter what.

Not sure what sports you played and at what level, I played basketball growing up at national level but also competed at LANs across the country on COD4 and learned lots of lessons from both.

[whysonot]

I should have clarified that there's a difference between showing up and mindfully playing / practicing and simply showing up. You and Cal Ripken Jr showed up to practice with the intention of getting better. If you're to actually get better at your job, you show up and try and get better at your job. But if you show up and just go through the motions (the real-life equivalent of clicking a bunch of buildings to mine resources) you will be squandering your potential. I think we agree--I just wasn't clear enough in my first comment.

[emsy]

In competitive games (UT, Quake, CS etc.) you get better by playing and critical analysis of your and your enemie's playing. In WoW, you get better through, more or less, mindless grinding. At least so mindless that you can pay peons to do the work for you, so you can enjoy your level 100 character.

[Fomite]

Having once been a fairly serious raider in WoW, there's a ceiling in WoW wherein you no longer get better through mindless grinding. A level 100 character is nice and all, but serious end-game raiding or PvP requires more than just "Push button, collect loot."

[parasubvert]

I'm reminded of the Woody Allen quote that 80% of success is showing up. Patient practice leads to getting good at things.

(Was an MMO player, love the genre, don't have time lately)