[jon-wood]

> It also makes me feel much more comfortable about switching databases if necessary.

This is one of the big features touted by ORMs, but I wonder how often it actually comes into play. I've been using Rails with ActiveRecord for most of the last 10 years now, and I've not once changed databases after starting a project. There's one project where I'd like to, but despite the use of ActiveRecord, there's enough MySQL specific stuff in the code that its not going to be trivial to just copy the data over to a Postgres database and flip the switch.

[spacemanmatt]

> but I wonder how often it comes into play.

Databases are not interchangeable, though sharing a common query language makes the skill set somehat interchangeable. I think this is part of the nuance often lost in the discussion of ORMs and database-portability.

I have worked with many developers who actively deny this basic reality, in favor of trying to bury all that variability under an ORM, rather than exploit any of the proprietary features. I understood it as a crutch when I was still in the flat part of that learning curve, but I am a lot happier building a rich SQL application interface (non-ORM!) these days.

[mercurial]

> Databases are not interchangeable, though sharing a common query language makes the skill set somehat interchangeable. I think this is part of the nuance often lost in the discussion of ORMs and database-portability.

I see two realistic reasons for why having an ORM/avoiding DB-specific queries is good idea:

- your product supports multiple databases

- you want to use something like sqlite in memory for tests

[spacemanmatt]

> your product supports multiple databases

In this case, I tend to see pretty light loads. You can do this with fairly vanilla (ORM-generated) SQL and design. When your business begins to lean heavily on the database for operations (I saw this in finance) around the clock, and you have to start being more judicious about your queries, these applications are usually the first to buckle.

> you want to use something like sqlite in memory for tests

Only if I have to support sqlite in the field!

[towelguy]

It's not so much switching databases during a project, but using the same skillset across projects regardless of the database engine used. SQL syntax is different enough across databases to require re-learning it.

[wylee]

> I wonder how often it actually comes into play

I've wondered the same thing in the past, but just recently I converted two Django projects at work from MySQL to PostgreSQL. The transition was pretty much seamless--I didn't have to change any application code.

One of the projects was converted to add spatial capabilities via PostGIS. The other was converted due to an issue with how MySQL stores data (it ended up being easier in a time crunch to dump and reload into PostgreSQL than fix the issue with MySQL).

[Demiurge]

I made another comment already how it's trivial to start a web project with SQLite and migrate to a 'real' database, or continue to use it interchangeably for local development.

But I also just realized, there is a whole ecosystem of ORM based apps that can run on any of the supported databases. If you ever used an MVC framework and re-used apps, you have "switched databases" without even knowing, depending on what the original developers used.

[rondon2]

I'm in the process of moving some of my data storage from oracle to redis. Having already used Linq has made this easier. I had a pretty small data-model though. I think that in a large project switching databases is a large effort with or without ORM.