[knowtheory]

Hopefully you can understand that intent isn't everything?

Being considerate of others isn't just saying "pshht i didn't mean anything by it!" it's actually thinking about how other people might react in the circumstances they've been put in.

You can call sexism a lens, but it might also help to understand the experiences others have lived (from their POV, not yours) to see why it's a lens that others are brought to employing.

[l33tbro]

Your lens theory is nice, but I found found living in a transgender commune (yep, that's another story) insufferable in terms of second guessing every my comment or impulse. Persecution complexes are just not sustainable in promoting harmonius cross-communities, and at some point the person subject to sexism and oppression has to be prepared to expect some of the heat. It's simply the world we've inherited, and we can't expect it to magically change.

On the positive, things are changing. I see this issue get talked about a lot on here now, and there's a greater dialogue in the culture about it. It will take some time ...

[blkhp19]

But everyone is subject to that. Humans are incredibly imperfect social beings - and teenagers and young adults are particularly good at not thinking through what they say. It doesn't mean people are trying to be sexist.

[knowtheory]

Surely we can agree that discrimination is not only about intent.

And, again, if you make someone else feel bad is it the right thing to do to go "oh, well i didn't mean to make you feel bad, so you shouldn't feel that way."

[theVirginian]

Perhaps, but there certainly are some incidents which are ambiguous. I fear that by taking that mindset we will create an environment where people have more incentive to not speak to or interact with women because they might get in trouble for an action that was either careless or consciously intended not to be sexist but gets twisted around and made to look that way. I certainly think that saying something like "you are less capable because you are a woman" is sexist but saying something like "your dress is fun" does not unambiguously imply that it was a sexual advance. Why can't it just be a nice unthreatening comment?

[notduncansmith]

> people have more incentive to not speak to or interact with women because they might get in trouble for an action that was either careless or consciously intended not to be sexist but gets twisted around and made to look that way

This is how I feel about most tech gatherings now, even online discussions (I'm actually a bit nervous about this comment). Any interaction I have with a woman in tech, or any discussion about women in tech that I might participate in, has the potential for career-threatening blowback. So far I've been following the War Games strategy: "The only way to win, is not to play." But that doesn't feel great either, because now I'm consciously avoiding people who otherwise might have been great to have a conversation with.

The worst part is, I didn't have that problem until the whole women in tech thing was dragged into the light. I'm not saying that shouldn't have happened: it's obvious by now that there are problems that need solving. There have been consequences, however, of which I'm not sure the more vocal members of this movement are cognizant.

[knowtheory]

Okay, it's great that you've got concerns about how guys feel, but shouldn't we equally consider how women in the field feel too?

I had female friends with whom i took CS classes who all had stories about guys who would do super weird things like start talking badly about them to others or refusing to cooperate with them on class projects after it being made clear that there was no romantic interest.

Nit picking individual comments or trying to negate how people feel about the circumstances they find themselves in isn't really addressing their concerns is it?