[deeferty]

Are you saying all Frank Lin products are made with the same grain ethanol and just different flavourings? I'd be astounded if that's the case. I thought things labelled as for example 'wine' or 'rum' had legal definitions. Can you really sell flavoured grain ethanol as unqualified 'wine'?

[GeorgeBeech]

If you look at their site, it's all college rot gut, and well liquor level stuff. It's the brands that you go and get a giant 1 Gallon handle for 10$. Which makes sense given their business model.

This is the stuff you'll get at a corner bar when you say "I don't care." When they ask what kind of vodka you want.

[deeferty]

It looks like it would be illegal to market grain ethanol as rum in the US, no matter how downmarket

http://www.robsrum.com/RumBasics.html

I think the grandparent isn't right.

[dredmorbius]

Skyy Vodka isn't well-level.

And about three seconds' thought would tell you: "GeorgeBeech, no idiot running a 'premium' liquor brand would allow their product to be featured on a bulk purveyor of flavored methanol products manufacturer website."

Brand appearances are tightly controlled. The message is as much about what you want to be known as what you want to be concealed.

[Animats]

Skyy Vodka was featured on the Frank-Lin web site back in 2006.[1] "One of our current contract customers is Skyy Vodka. We are very proud to mention that we bottled the first bottle of Skyy for Maurice Kambar and have bottled every single bottle for him since." That was in 2006. Campari later bought out Skyy, and moved production to a Campari facility.

It's all ethanol, water, and flavoring. Deal with it.

Coca-Cola's "Dasani" is tap water that's been run through a deionizing plant and had some minerals added.

[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20060318162306/http://www.frank-...

[dredmorbius]

Yeah, I'm supporting your point

Here's a list of Frank-Lin products: http://sourmashed.com/american-whiskey-database/frank-lin-di...

[dredmorbius]

You're welcome to tell me which of the following brands you consider "college rot gut". Though it's all just flavoured ethanol:

http://sourmashed.com/american-whiskey-database/frank-lin-di...

A R Morrow Brandy, Lejon Brandy, Potter’s Finest Brandy, Montanac Brandy, Maraska Brandy, Busnel Calvados, Menorval Calvados, 1st Cru Collection Cognac, Francious Voyer Napoleon Cognac, Maison Prunier Cognac, Marthe Sepia Cognac, Menuet Cognac, Aubade & Cie. Cognac, Francois De Lyon Cognac, Jules Domet Cognac, Maison Prunier Cognac, Café Del Amor, Curacao Liqueur, Destinee Liqueur, Gran Citron, Grand Marquette, Holly Toddy, Jules Domet Orange Liqueur, Kona Gold Coffee Liqueur, Maraska Cherry & Pear Liqueurs, Potter’s, Potter’s Long Island Iced Tea, Potter’s Sour Splash, Vice Rei – Portugal Passion Fruit, Duggan’s Irish Cream, Barrett’s London Dry Gin, Bellringer (England) Gin, Cossack Gin, Martini London Dry Gin, Potter’s London Dry Gin, Classik Grappa, Jules Domet Grand Orange, Agwa, Arak Razzouk – Anise Liqueur, Par-D-Schatz, Ramazotti, Arak Razzouk, Don Antonio Aguilar, Diamond Head Rum, Havana Bay Rum, Moraga Cay Rum, Potter’s Specialty Rums, Potter’s West Indies Rum, Prichard’s Rum, Tanduay Rum, Glenalmond Scotch, Glen Ranoch Scotch, Muirheads Speyside Scotch, Angus Dundee Scotch, Tambowie Scotch, Blackburn’s Scotch, Duggan’s Dew Scotch, Lloyd & Haig Scotch, Potter’s Scotch, Maraska Kosher, Subovorska, Defrost Schnapps, El Tirador Tequila, Arette 100% agave Tequila, Baja Tequila, Baja Tequila Liqueur, Don Diego Santa Tequila, Potter’s Tequila, Puente Grande Tequila, Puerto Vallarta Tequila, Quito Tequila, Señor Rio Tequila, Sol De Mexico Tequila, Baronoff Vodka, Beyond Vodka, Charodei-Russia Vodka, Cossack Vodka, Crown Czar Vodka, Crown Superior Vodka, Ed Hardy-France Vodka, Haamonii-Schochu Vodka, Maggy-Russsia Vodka, Monnema Vodka, Monopolowa Vodka, Monopolowa-Austria Vodka, Potter’s Vodka, Purity-Sweden Vodka, Royal Czar Vodka, Spirit of Santa-Finland Vodka, Tamiroff Vodka, Vampyre-Transylvania Vodka, White Wolf Vodka, Bourbon Age – Ky Bourbon, Bourbon Club Bourbon, Buck Bourbon Bourbon, Clyde Mays Conecuh Ridge Whisky Bourbon, Joshua Brook Bourbon, Potter’s Bourbon, Wathen’s Bourbon, Barret’s Blended Whiskey, Glenwood Blended Whiskey, Potter’s Blended Whiskey, 8 Seconds Canadian Whisky, C.E.O. Canadian Whisky, Campbell & Cooper Canadian Whisky, Canadian Crown Canadian Whisky, Potter’s Crown Canadian Whisky.

[gaadd33]

How can they legally sell Canadian Whisky given it's a protected geographic designation under NAFTA?

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_whisky#Regulations and NAFTA Chapter 3, Annex 313: Distinctive Products)

[justin66]

Same deal with the "Scotch" and "Cognac" appellations. They're protected by law.

The thing to remember is, there's plenty of completely crappy Scotch and, presumably, Cognac. It's not mixed from pure ethanol - the countries who control the use of the appellations have laws about how the stuff can be made - but every drink industry has its bottom of the barrel stuff that it needs to get rid of somehow...

[gaadd33]

As far as I know "Scotch" and "Cognac" are only protected in the EU.

In any case, the parent claims that Frank-Lin Distillers just uses pure ethanol to produce all of it's products. Given things such as bourbon permit the addition of "neutral grain spirits" those products make sense. I was curious about the Canadian whiskey case since it is explicitly one of the few protected spirits in law and appears to at least require production and aging in Canada.

[justin66]

> As far as I know "Scotch" and "Cognac" are only protected in the EU.

That's an interesting thought. I'm aware of France fighting misuse of its wine appellations overseas but I don't know about the rest. They're pretty aggressive, though.

> In any case, the parent claims that Frank-Lin Distillers just uses pure ethanol to produce all of it's products. Given things such as bourbon permit the addition of "neutral grain spirits" those products make sense.

The "bourbon" label is protected in the United States: you need to use certain ingredients to make bourbon, or rye, or tennessee whiskey, or whatever. With bourbon, for example, an ethanol distilled all the way up to azeotrope wouldn't be legal in the United States. The limit you can use is 160 proof.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bourbon_whiskey#Legal_requireme...

In the parent's defense, "flavored ethanol" isn't a bad way of describing a lot of vodkas. Some of the better vodkas come out of industrial continuous distillation. The parent is just overstating his case, and in a small way, missing the point. A lot of that cheap stuff would be BETTER if it were pure ethanol and an additive...

[kyllo]

Wine is fundamentally different from liquor, but he's probably referring to fortified wine, which is cheap wine with neutral grain spirits added to it.

[dredmorbius]

That's something I'd like to dig into.

It's an open secret in the wine industry, though, that a large quantity of grapes for California wine -- even of Napa Valley product (though I'm not sure how strict the rules are for appellations) are sourced from elsewhere in the state, much of it from near Fresno and Clovis. There simply isn't enough acreage within Napa Valley to supply production.

How much individualized production Frank-Lin does would be quite interesting to establish.