[tomsun]

As someone who spent more than half of his life in China, I'd have to agree with you, at least from an anecdotal perspective. Trust is hard to build in China. A lot of people care about making money but people scarcely think about creating value for the society. Wealth is synonymous with consumption. The worst part I think, is the 1) social stability is valued over social mobility 2) individuality is shunned rather than celebrated.

In America people are encouraged to pursue your desire, the mentality of "not giving a fuck" and do what you love is admired and regarded as a sign of courage. In China someone who questions the conventions is deemed as social outcast. People in China are more concerned with the appearance (having face) than trying to be innately satisfied.

Things may have changed over the last decade. But I think China still faces this tremendous cultural problem, despite the development growth.

[flyrain]

As a Chinese, I agree with you. A lot of (let's say most of)Chinese people actually care more about making money than creating value for society. But, I think this is a short-term wave, especially starting from 1978. And in China, people need more money to establish safety of life since there are less social security and public welfare comparing to western countries. This could change when there are more social security program, more insurance, medical care. So, I don't think this is a "tremendous cultural problem".

[yeukhon]

Disclaimer: I came to the US when I was 12 and I have been living here for eleven years. I was born in Hong Kong, but I think I know quite enough about the mainland China. But please correct me if I am wrong.

As a Chinese, I think this is not short-term. I think it has to do with culture, how people were brought up. I don't remember the proper term for this, but people are pressured to make money. Call it peer pressure for all and from all sides.

It is expensive to live in China. It is very expensive to own a house. Here in NYC I can own a decent house in a very good neighborhood for $500,000 - $600,000. A software engineer with a couple years of experience and working for a decent company can afford the mortgage.

Here in America I help my parents with their mortgage (well after all I am also on the paper). But they are okay with me not paying, yet I do because I can afford to help them! But in China, people will talk shit behind your back and people look down on you if you don't help with mortgage or if you don't own a house. Every Chinese New Year you are expected to give out red envelope. $100? No way. You visit someone's place? Gift. I know we do that here in America too, but when was the last time you actually visit your uncle and give him a nice whiskey?

Here in America you can get married without even owning a property. Rental is fine. In China people like to own a house because a house is money. In the old days farm owners are like house owners today. Who cares if you worked as a government official? or whether you are literate or not if you don't own a farm or some livestock? Actually in China today there is a 70-year land-use right. You can own a piece of land for 70-year...

It has a lot to do with culture, how people were brought up. When everyone started to show off how well their children are doing, everyone are now suddenly in a race for better. Many couples have to break off because their parents believe the child deserves better.

But you have a great point about social welfare though. In China social welfare is very hard to get. In the U.S. you can move to CA and get tax benefit if you declare yourself as CA resident after a few months, but in China you can't just move to another province ("state"). Most workers in China work at another province and their children cannot get benefit there because their parents don't have the right "residency paper", let alone the complex over 100 different documents one has to get in one's life time.

[maratd]

> Actually in China today there is a 70-year land-use right. You can own a piece of land for 70-year...

Very few outside of China know about this and it will actually be very interesting in the future.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_property_law#Obtaining_...

[kiwidrew]

It's not such a big deal; in Hong Kong, for instance, all property (with very very few exceptions) is leasehold land. The most common term is now 75 years. The city has been in existence long enough that many of the original leases have come up for renewal at least once. In the vast majority of cases, the government signalled far in advance (10+ years) that: (a) it would renew the leases, and (b) the terms under which they would be renewed.

Yes, it is a different system than freehold property in Europe and America, but that doesn't make it unworkable.

[dood]

This is interesting. What happens when you lose the right to the land your home or factory is built on?

Are there common provisions for renewing the land-use right? Do people expect that their land-use right will be renewed?

[tomsun]

Well, you're basically asking more than a billion people to change their cultural value on a fundamental level that has been instilled starting 5000 years ago. I wouldn't casually put it aside as a minor issue that can be solved by social security.

[mastermojo]

Additionally, my impression is that "trust" vehicles like contracts don't hold the same weight that they do in places like the US. They get broken and tossed aside all the time and the legal recourse you can have is minimal.

[LiweiZ]

Many of those cultural issues are caused by feedback loops, which are thought to be good, do not work in our system since very long time ago. Equilibrium in this system does not necessarily indicate the system at this stage is a good one. There is an old saying that is spot on: "兴，百姓苦，亡，百姓苦" (No matter whether it thrives or declines, average person suffers).