[callum85]

How could there be a placebo for meditation? A placebo has to replicate the experience of going through the 'real' treatment being trialled. How could you create the experience of meditation without the subject actually meditating? The claim being tested is simply that the experience of meditation is beneficial, so I don't know what form a placebo could take.

It would be OK to do a trial where one group is instructed to meditate and the other is not given any instructions, and you check back with each group in a couple of weeks and ask them how they feel. If there's a difference in the meditation group, that proves there is value in meditating. Placebo doesn't come into it, because no one is claiming there is any benefit to meditation that doesn't come from simply experiencing it.

For comparison, I once heard of a way of testing acupuncture against a placebo – someone invented needles that look and feel the same but don't actually penetrate the skin. So they could compare the reported benefits of 'fake acupuncture' with real acupuncture, and see if there's any health benefit to the physical intervention, or if it's all just theatre. And if it is all just theatre, that's OK – it doesn't negate the health benefits of acupuncture, it just helps us understand that it's all about the experience of having someone slowly and dramatically stick pins in you, which is interesting. It's not the same as saying that acupuncture doesn't work.

[bjterry]

There are a mountain of studies that have been done on meditation. Among those that are controlled, there a few different strategies.

The best strategy is an "active control" group which receives some combination of education, attention from instructors, group therapy and the like which is matched with the meditation group for time and attention. This has subsets of "specific active control" in which the control is a known procedure (like exercise or progressive muscle relaxation) or "non-specific active control" in which the control procedure is not a known effective procedure and so is expected not to have any effect.

The other main control group used is a "wait list" or "usual care" control, in which the participants don't receive any treatment or only receive the treatment you would usually get for the condition under study, which isn't matched with the meditation group for time and attention.

[return0]

i think you 're supposed to compare the claimed effects on people who meditate vs people who don't (control group)

[vidarh]

A control group that does not do anything and does not receive anything is not using a placebo.

A placebo is very specifically a substitute for whatever you want to measure the effect of.

You can have both a control group and a group using a placebo and get substantially different results for them, and that's exactly why placebos are used: People report substantial effects from sugar pills and the like when they believe there should be an effect.

[return0]

well yeah , you would then have to have a "sugar pill" group. I wonder whether these studies include an third" no intervention" group.