[maxlybbert]

The thing that bothers me isn't the need to vaccinate, but the fact that the list of vaccinations continues to get longer. Well, it isn't the length of the list; it's simply that I'm not worried about all of the diseases on the list.

My main disagreement is chicken pox. Yes, I understand that there are serious chicken pox cases, but they're incredibly rare. Whoever made the decision to include the chicken pox vaccine on the list weighed a very rare risk for unvaccinated children against even smaller risks for vaccinated children, and decided to require the vaccine. That's a rational decision, but I would prefer if I were allowed to weigh benefits and risks myself.

[profsnuggles]

Something about this comment is really bugging me and I'm not sure what it is. I think I'm in agreement that giving people unnecessary medical procedures is probably a bad idea. Maybe it's just because I don't understand why you hate the chicken pox vaccine.

I took a quick look at the CDC page about it and the wikipedia entry. According to wikipedia before the vaccine was introduced in the US 10k people a year were admitted to a hospital due to chicken pox and 100 people a year died from it. It goes on to say that 10 years after the CDC recommended the vaccine the hospital admissions dropped by 71% for people under 20 and deaths dropped 97%.

Neither of those sources had numbers for the moderate or severe reactions cause by the vaccine (seizures,pneumonia) the CDC just says very rare. Overall though it seems like there is essentially no downside.

Now that I just looked all that up maybe my issue is when you claim that they "weighed a very rare risk for unvaccinated children against even smaller risks for vaccinated children" and go on to agree that was a rational decision. At that point wouldn't not being immunized just be irrational?

[maxlybbert]

I'll admit that I don't make all of my decisions scientifically. I had chicken pox, all of my siblings and cousins had chicken pox, and I personally don't know anyone who had a bad enough case to be hospitalized.

If 100 people die out of 10000 that are hospitalized, the danger of death from people who have an unusually bad infection is only 1%, meaning the risk for the general public is significantly less.

But I'll admit my grandparents lived in a time where they knew large numbers of people suffered through measles, mumps or reubela. If they had the same "I lived through it" attitude I have, those diseases would be much more common today.

But, still, I have a hard time telling my kids that they have to get this specific vaccine so they can avoid the horrors of spending a week or two covering themselves with calamine lotion, with a small risk of something worse happening.

[maxlybbert]

OK, here are the numbers from the CDC ( http://www.cdc.gov/chickenpox/vaccination.html ): 4 million cases annually, 10,600 (0.265%) required hospitalization, and 100 to 150 (0.0025% to 0.0037% of the 4 million cases) deaths.

Certainly going from 100-150 deaths a year to fewer than 10 is a significant improvement, and the 90-140 people who survive each year who wouldn't are grateful (or would be, if they knew what the alternative was). But we are talking about a very small risk.

[cc439]

The chicken pox vaccine is included to prevent shingles. You will be long gone by the time your child is a senior citizen and vulnerable to the relapse but it's a horrible experience for the elderly.

[jrs235]

You don't have to be senior to get shingles. I got shingles at age 30 along the s2 and s3 dermatomes. Extremely painful but certainly survivable and treatable. Complications are the big concern in the elderly. I think education and knowledge dissemination on what to look for for early diagnosis is more important.

[maxlybbert]

Unless there's a detail that I'm not aware of, vaccination at, say, 18 should be as effective against shingles as vaccination at 4.

[Vendan]

Shingles isn't a separate disease. If you had chicken pox, you have the shingles virus in you already. If you had the chicken pox vaccine before you got exposed to chicken pox, you don't. And the only shingles specific vaccine is only for ages 50+, which isn't terribly useful for people like me, who get it at age 27.

[maxlybbert]

You're right. I wasn't thinking when I wrote the comment.

Still, the CDC's page for the chicken pox vaccine doesn't mention its effect on shingles ( http://www.cdc.gov/chickenpox/vaccination.html ), which suggests to me that avoiding shingles may be a great perk, it isn't the main reason behind requiring vaccination in school children.

With the caveats of believing Wikipedia, Wikipedia's page ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varicella_vaccine ) states both that being vaccinated reduces (but does not eliminate) the risk of shingles, and that vaccination of children raises the risk of shingles in unvaccinated adults slightly because the adults don't come into contact with the virus as often (near the end of the subsection on "Rates of immunity" and the second paragraph of the subsection "Rates of chickenpox").

Your case of shingles may, in fact, have been caused by widespread vaccination of children (I would expect that problem to disappear after a long transition; and, of course, it's impossible to say if your case was caused by this transition, but it's certain that some cases are).

[Vendan]

meh, I think I'll take the discomfort over: "Some people with serious complications from chickenpox can become so sick that they need to be hospitalized. Chickenpox can also cause death.

Some deaths from chickenpox continue to occur in healthy, unvaccinated children and adults. Many of the healthy adults who died from chickenpox contracted the disease from their unvaccinated children."

quoted from http://www.cdc.gov/chickenpox/about/complications.html

[jrs235]

According to this http://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-144377/zostavax-subq/detai... there is a [different?] shingles vaccine ZOSTAVAX available to older adults.

I assumed and thought the same as you, that once you got chicken pox then the vaccine for shingles is useless.

The link above states "This vaccine works by boosting the body's natural defense (immunity) against the zoster virus so that symptoms of shingles do not develop. It should not be used for treating active shingles, nerve pain caused by shingles, or for the prevention of chickenpox.

This vaccine should not be used in children."

[Vendan]

shingles isn't just for old people, I'm 27 and I had it. Wish I hadn't. Caught it early and the doctor said I was lucky, but it still hurt to even move.

[jrs235]

As I mentioned on a sibling post, I too got shingles at a younger age.

Just prior to rearing its ugly blisters, were you stressed physically, emotionally, and/or mentally? From my understanding shingles is able to come out when the immune system is weak/compromised, often times to due high stress levels. I know when my showed up I was extremely stressed.

I know a few others who have had shingles in their late 20's early 30's too. Not sure if it's becoming more prevalent or just more recognized/talked about but I think people should be more informed to recognize early symptoms so as to treat it ASAP.

For others reading, when my shingles showed up I recall a funny tingling sensation which after a few days turned into more of a burning sensation. You will only feel it on one side of your body. My singles came out around the S2 and S3 dermatomes (http://webpresencepartners.com/wp-content/uploads/cssmap/201...) on my right side. If hurt to sit, it hurt to stand, it hurt to move... but it went away after only a few days thank goodness! Shingles often starts presenting itself in one of two dermatomes. If you're not familiar with dermatomes I suggest you due a quick five minute search and read on them.

ADD: Good info: http://www.webmd.com/skin-problems-and-treatments/shingles/n...