[jpatokal]

Access to the Internet is increasingly viewed as a right and/or an essential service. Access to overpriced handbags, not so much.

Providing health care to the destitute isn't profitable either; doesn't mean we shouldn't be doing it.

[JumpCrisscross]

> Access to the Internet is increasingly viewed as a right and/or an essential service. Access to overpriced handbags, not so much.

Clothes are seen as essentials in Western society. Luxury brands, not so much. Yet access to internet and access to cutting-edge broadband are treated similarly by regulators in the U.S. That's the asymmetry.

[nitrogen]

...access to internet and access to cutting-edge broadband...

At the pace technology advances, there's not so much difference between the two. Since companies are still constantly pushing the limits of technology, the majority of the benefits of connectivity come at the higher end of the bandwidth spectrum.

[rayiner]

I disagree. Almost all of the "internet as a human right" uses of technology are at the lower end of the bandwidth spectrum: e-mail, job applications, Wikipedia, etc. 95% of what's socially valuable on the internet can be done with HTML 2.0.

[nitrogen]

95% of what's socially valuable is feeling like an equal -- that means edX videos, Khan Academy, Coursera, YouTube, live streaming, backup software, immersive games, etc.

[rayiner]

Since when is "feeling like an equal" a basic right? Everyone in my high-school had a car and designer clothing. Should the public subsidize that stuff for poor kids? Note that clothes are a much bigger part of "feeling like an equal" to a typical kid than anything to do with computers.

Games are not socially valuable, they're a diversion. Backup software--it's much cheaper to give everyone a USB drive than build fiber out to them. Finally, the failure of rich media in the educational setting has been profound. Text (and static diagrams) is the most efficient and precise way to convey information.[1] In the 1990's, it was about getting "multimedia" into classrooms, and it was a colossal waste of time and money. The value of online courseware is the lecture notes and exams, which have limited bandwidth demands.

[1] I'll note that HN is about as plain text as you can get, and is a place for serious discussion.

[nitrogen]

Edit: added ---> to quotes to make the paragraph separation clearer and clarify some minor points

---> Since when is "feeling like an equal" a basic right?

Since always, because large groups of people not feeling like equals inevitably leads to instability and uprising.

---> Everyone in my high-school had a car and designer clothing. Should the public subsidize that stuff for poor kids?

Yes, in the form of basic income sufficient to feed, clothe, and transport oneself and one's family.

---> Note that clothes are a much bigger part of "feeling like an equal" to a typical kid than anything to do with computers.

We're not just talking about kids, but even kids deserve the basic dignity of not being terrified to walk the halls of their school because they don't have reasonable clothing. The distraction of being strongly disliked by other students can have a profound effect on a kid's outlook for the future and motivation to improve.

---> Games are not socially valuable, they're a diversion.

Games are every bit as socially valuable as any other form of art or entertainment. As just one example of an artistic game, see Braid.

---> Backup software--it's much cheaper to give everyone a USB drive than build fiber out to them.

Give someone a USB drive you back up their files for a day, but give them fiber and you back up their files for a lifetime. Once built, the fiber is good for a very long time and many other uses.

---> Finally, the failure of rich media in the educational setting has been profound.

That's because people who call things "rich media" didn't know what they were doing or how to measure it. They were just jumping onto a buzzword. As a counterexample, Encarta on CD-ROM was quite useful as a tool for education and inspiration.

---> Text (and static diagrams) is the most efficient and precise way to convey information.

It depends on the information. What sound does a penguin make, in text? What does it look like to fly over an island rain forest?

If this is true, why do we still have classrooms at all? Why was video or telephone invented?

---> In the 1990's, it was about getting "multimedia" into classrooms, and it was a colossal waste of time and money.

I'll repeat my earlier mention of buzzwords, and add the benefit of a generation of students having early experience with computers, allowing them to perform better in a modern workplace.

---> The value of online courseware is the lecture notes and exams, which have limited bandwidth demands.

Strongly disagree. I took the very first edX course, MITx 6.002x. 95% of the value was in the excellent lecture videos by Prof. Agarwal, which I could speed up or slow down as needed to maximize understanding. The remaining value came from interactive circuit simulations. It's not just the medium, it's the quality of execution. Excellent videos and interactive software are invaluable and can't be replaced by lecture notes and exams.

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But all that said, I'll return to the first paragraph. People need to be connected to society in the way society wants to connect. Because the majority of the price of broadband is in the installation, it makes no sense to install second-class hardware in poorer areas unless you want to create a permanent digital underclass that will eventually drop out of the workforce, drain welfare resources, and eventually, revolt.

Cities already have to provide water, electricity, gas, and sewer services, so the roads will be dug up and the labor expended whether fiber is added to the mix or not.