[avinashv]

I manufacture jeans, and this is misleading.

The strength of any textile (knit or woven) is a first a function of the yarn and then of the structure. Any heavy twill that remains unwashed for long periods of time (as all "selvedge purists" seem to do) will last longer than a pair of cheap jeans that get tumble-dryed twice a week.

Please stop perpetrating this myth that selvedge denim is somehow inherently stronger or better than regular denim. It should be indicative that most people need to turn the cuff of a pair of selvedge jeans to look for the actual selvedge before they know for certain.

To your original point that you find it confusing that apparel is expensive relative to other goods, it's probably because retail margins are disproportionate to the amount of cost it takes to sell garments for a list of reasons out of the scope of a Hacker News comment. Apparel is, at the point of sale out the door of a manufacturer, cheaper than it has probably ever been today. The amount of processes involved between planting a cotton seed and loading a container of packed garments is absolutely awe-inspiring in scope, and the fact that a pair of jeans is billed by a manufacturer at ~>$10 is crazy.

[shutupalready]

> retail margins are disproportionate to the amount of cost it takes to sell garments for a list of reasons out of the scope of a Hacker News comment

I think it's perfectly appropriate for HN. Do tell us your thinking about why apparel is expensive relative to other goods. I've wondered this myself.

[avinashv]

The emphasis of the scope was the word "comment" and not "Hacker News"; i.e., it's a lot to cram into a comment. Here are a handful of thoughts:

In a nutshell, I think apparel is too cheap, but raising prices isn't the solution because of the bargain-hunting and markdown pricing expectations that consumers have that is moving its way further upmarket every year. Brands are scared to raise a penny on their prices, and are right to be fearful because consumers don't have loyalty. While manufacturers are living on terrible margins, retailers (who get decent margins) have to deal with the ridiculous cost of retail real estate and stock write downs, which means that the only person who really wins is the importer (in cases when the importer exists) and the consumer. The importer can also lose this game if they work on a replenishment basis (double storage cost there if you're following along).

Plenty of other reasons exist. If we use the earlier example of a refrigerator, then things like automation come into the picture. The apparel industry, for the most part, is not really automated. I've seen TV manufacturing facilities, and they are so alarmingly automated it seems fake at first glance. Even then, companies like Sony have lost money every year for decades selling TV because the rest of the business can sustain huge losses so Sony can have their logo staring at you every day of the week in your living room. Apparel businesses don't have that kind of luxury because most are not small hobby businesses of a larger conglomerate.

Then there are lots of political issues such as the United States customs policies. FTA like CAFTA/NAFTA, AGUA, special treaties like the ones with Jordan are all affecting apparel. Do you know a synthetic garment from a country like Sri Lanka (lots of, for example, Nike production happens there, so think about an athletic garment from them) will be imported at a 32% duty rate?

"Fast fashion", which today basically means very cleverly convincing consumers to buy more clothes means the SKUs have gone up for manufacturers, but since nobody really gets paid anymore the margins get shrunk because of a loss of economies of scale right from the start of the value chain until things are put on retail shelves.

Etc. etc.

TL;DR Apparel costs about what it should, if we assume it should be a reasonably low-margin, high-risk business. Comparing it to the lower-margin, higher-risk electronics industry is not an easy comparison because of how different the businesses are.

[ctdonath]

Another example of what's great about HN: Ann offhand comment about the cost of jeans elicits detailed analysis from someone who actually makes jeans.

The breadth of expertise here is amazing.