[adunn]

"...but it's society as a whole causing this rather than government(s) specifically"

It sounds like you are claiming that state surveillance is actually a subset of social pressure surrounding what's socially acceptable behavior. You claim the latter to be a bigger and more serious problem. Perhaps you did not mean to claim that, but that is how it sounds.

Socially acceptable behavior is always changing as generations come and go.

For everyone's well-being, governments must always trend away from oppression, not toward.

Whatever you think about equality issues, surely we can agree that these things are not really the same, and government oppression certainly is not a subset of social norm issues.

[Amezarak]

> It sounds like you are claiming that state surveillance is actually a subset of social pressure surrounding what's socially acceptable behavior. You claim the latter to be a bigger and more serious problem

He didn't say it was a bigger problem, he said the problem is bigger than just the government. In other words, it's all part of the same problem.

Governments are not Other. They are part of a society's self-regulatory machinery. Democratic governments in particular are a reflection of society at large. If a government is behaving badly, the root cause has something to do with the society.

That's how I read GP and I can't disagree.

> Socially acceptable behavior is always changing as generations come and go.

Legally acceptable behavior is also always changing as generations come and go. From a sociological perspective laws are simply the formalization of very strong social norms.

[mSparks]

reading between the lines this sounds to me like an attempt to kill the bill the amendments were added to rather than sneak the amendments into an easy bill.

seriously. the home secretary authorising every journey in and out of the UK with one or more schemes..... never going to happen.