| It's not an elaborate strawman to want clearer definitions and a cleaner scope for discussion. Further you have not proven, > then you construct this elaborate straw man about how the technology itself is gender agnostic [...] and that the gender issues are in society as a whole is factually wrong. You admit that technology as a whole is gender agnostic, so you actually agree with my premise. And actually I have acknowledged that there is sexism in tech because it is progressed by individuals (read: people) that come from a society. That society provides the context to their actions and motivations, regardless of which industry they are employed in (though each industry will vary in specifics). When one limits the discussion to only the tech industry they prevent any comparisons to other industries, both at a specific point in time as well as long-term / trends, which limits the ability to judge and measure progress. Limiting the judging to merely internal progress means that one will be unsure if that industry is progressing faster or slower than other industries wrt whatever we're discussing (in this case, gender issues in tech). In addition, it prevents people from discussing where industry A has made progress that industry B can look to, or learn from the mistakes of industry C. That is not possible if the discussion is silo-ed within only a single industry. Also, what do Caucasians have to do with gender? That came out of no where, how is that relevant to this? You also seem to imply that I don't believe I could ever make a sexist comment or action, yet I never stated that, so why would you imply that? You're projecting yourself onto my words, please stop, it's disingenuous. Welp, here's a thesis that concludes that men who treat women equally are seen as treating women as inferiors - https://uwspace.uwaterloo.ca/bitstream/handle/10012/6958/Yeu... So if that thesis can be reproduced, then all gender issues need to be reexamined as they'd be tainted by bias of treating men who treat women equally as men who are sexist. You haven't actually proven anything I've said to be incorrect, you've just tried to take it out of context and ignore some points here and there as a means to discredit my words and intentions. I'm sorry I treat people equally (we're all individual nodes in this big cog of society) and other people do not, but the fact remains, the framing of the discussion is inherently limiting to making progress by limiting the scope and depth of such a discussion. |
I would strongly suggest actually reading the study rather relying on someone else's summary. In particular, pay attention to the reason why she ran the second study and what was actually being measured, namely reactions to this paragraph:
“I disagree with the many people who think that women should be cherished and protected by men. You know I’m strongly against that whole idea that in a disaster women should always be rescued before men. And I really don’t agree with those who say that men should put women on a pedestal or that men are incomplete without women in their lives. There seems to be this popular attitude that women are more pure and moral than men and that women should therefore be treated with greater respect than men, but I think that’s a lot of nonsense.”
The second study found that simply prefixing that paragraph with “I’m a firm believer in equality between men and women. And because of that” removed much of the ambiguity which lead many people to conclude that the author was probably a misogynist.
Beyond that, simply looking at the test is already telling you that this isn't the sweeping result certain defensive men are claiming – it's a single study measuring reactions to a single, somewhat stilted paragraph over the internet in isolation (they used Mechanical Turk to get participants). That doesn't mean that it's not a decent study but it would immediately tell you not to believe the results apply generally to complex real-world interactions where few normal people randomly state manifestos like that and almost everything happens in a context with a history of past interactions which guide the listener's interpretation.