[nostromo]

A service like this existed until a few years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Helicopter

It took just a few minutes to get to EWR or JFK and cost $159. The biggest selling point was not only the short commute, but that you went through security at the helipad very quickly, rather than waiting at the airport.

I believe they were a victim of the financial crisis and died around that time.

[ovb]

And before US Helicopter, there was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Airways

New York Airways had one notable accident: http://learning.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/16/may-16-1977-hel...

[Alex3917]

The NYC helicopters in general have a terrible track record. There are constantly articles about them crashing into the rivers, into buildings, into other helicopters or planes, etc. Someone else in the thread posted an article about how the overall helicopter fatality rate compares with the car fatality rate, and while it's hard to say for certain, it doesn't look promising.

[rpmcb]

I'd be interested in sources for these claims. Lots of hyperbole in this comment.

[Alex3917]

7 crashes between 1995 - 2011, and that's only into the same two rivers.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/helicopter-crash-timelin...

[downandout]

Is that bad though? I'm guessing there are at least hundreds of thousands of helicopter flights in New York annually. ~1 accident per year doesn't sound very dangerous to me.

As for the concept, it's Uber for helicopters. As long as there is a need (I don't and would never live in New York so I have no idea what the demand for this is) then it may very well be successful.

[jfoutz]

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/20...

It's hard to compare cars and helicopters. From the article:

"Between 2005 and 2009, there was an annual average of 1.44 fatalities (PDF) per 100,000 flying hours in nonmilitary helicopters. Over the same period, there were 13.2 traffic fatalities per 100,000 population in the United States annually. Since the average American spends around 780 hours per year (PDF) in the car, that means the fatality rate per 100,000 hours of driving time is just 0.017. Based on hours alone, helicopters are 85 times more dangerous than driving."

[ybalkind]

An anecdotal source this - but a family friend of ours is a senior pilot for a well known international airline and a former air-force pilot. He also owns and fly's a microlight in his spare time. Recently my father took a helicopter flight and when this family friend heard about it he was absolutely livid at my father for risking his life and made my father swear to never fly a helicopter again.

[coldtea]

>Recently my father took a helicopter flight and when this family friend heard about it he was absolutely livid at my father for risking his life and made my father swear to never fly a helicopter again.

Could just mean that pilots can be irrational too.

[coldtea]

Once I run the numbers for air travel fatality rates, as compared to car fatality rates but talking into account miles travelled for both (and number of passengers etc), and, assuming I was correct, they came out pretty close.

[llimllib]

According to wiki, autos are more than an order of magnitude more dangerous per mile:

                                       Air      Car
    Miles driven                        40      450
    Risk (millionths)                 0.60     6.75

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_safety_in_the_U...

edit: that was a shallow misreading of the data. But the end concludes that air travel is roughly slightly less than an order of magnitude safer.

[drzaiusapelord]

Per mile is a weird metric, isn't it? It just seems to favor aircraft that travel so much farther.

Per trip would be interesting Not to mention, a minor crash or serious failure in a car is usually a walk away event. A minor crash or serious failure in a plane or chopper is usually fatal. Its okay if my car breaks down on the interstate. Its not okay if my plane does over the ocean, like Air France 447.

I'm not saying air travel is unsafe. I just think we're selling the point incorrectly.

[danielweber]

90% of the risk in airplane travel is the takeoffs and landings, not the miles travelled. IIRC it came out to each airplane trip was as dangerous as ~30 miles of driving, meaning any trip that is normally offered by an airline is noticeably safer.

[dankohn1]

I did the $159 a few years ago before they shut down. My flight out of JFK was delayed by 2 hours, making the expense seem kind of ridiculous. Also, my flight was in a different terminal, meaning I had to leave and then re-enter security, which also kills the time advantage.

[15thandwhatever]

I thought it was pretty clear on their site that they offered the "security transfer" only at certain terminals, for certain airlines. For instance, if you were flying Continental out of Newark, it was great to come in via USH and not have to deal with infrequent flyers at security.

[induscreep]

Could you explain what you mean by "deal with infrequent flyers at security"? What exactly do infrequent flyers do wrong?

[theorique]

They don't know the security theater procedures so they take longer to go through them and hold up the people behind them (laptop out of bag; liquids, gels, and aerosols in plastic bag; etc).

(That's one of the advantages of TSA PreCheck - not only are there fewer people in line, but the people who are in line are frequent flyers who tend to move fast.)

[roel_v]

"What do you mean, does this big sign that says 'take off your belt' mean that I actually have to, you know, take off my belt? And this form that says 'are you carrying any fresh fruit on you', I didn't think that would apply to this orange in my backpack because, you know, I didn't see anything wrong with it!"

[orbitur]

I don't know. I think I'd pay $160 to not sit in traffic for 3 hours, just to wait in an airport/go through security for another 2. That means extra time to get things done before you fly out.

[TheSpiceIsLife]

As someone who lives in a city with a population of approximately 100,000 in the greater metro area - Launceston, Tasmania - I'd like to take a moment to reflect on your comment.

Google Maps tells me Manhattan to JFK Airport is a 32 kilometre taxi ride and takes three hours, plus it takes two hours to clear security at the airport.

I'm a little astounded by those numbers. Five hours to get from the couch at home to the airport. Astounding. I'm through the airport and in Melbourne city in under 2 hours.

I would definitely pay $100 to reduce that. I think $100 helicopter flights is something I would do with friends just to get a drink across town occasionally. How novel!

[mkopinsky]

The numbers above are an exaggeration. I lived in the north end of manhattan (the part furthest from JFK) and an hour to get to JFK was on the long side - typical is probably 40-80 minutes. It doesn't take two hours to clear security at an airport either - typical is anywhere from 10 to 45 minutes.

[batiudrami]

The problem is you have to allow extra time in case something has gone wrong. I waited two hours in a queue at O'Hare just to get through security - thankfully I had allowed three hours.

Compare that to anywhere in Australia where you can be sure security won't take more than 10 minutes - you can arrive at the airport with 45 minutes before your flight and still be waiting 20 minutes after you check in and pass security before you board.

[mpdehaan2]

Incidentally, Uber direct to JFK is slightly cheaper than a cab too ($45-ish?). You think it would be crazy expensive, but it's flat rate. I'm not sure about from JFK into the city, but I think I was told it was the same.

I'm not too big of a fan of the AirTram + Long Island Railway (LIRR) route, which ends up at one of the major train stations, has on outside terminal (not great in the winter and slow with a lot of things to remember to do), but is about half price of that.

[epc]

I've become a big fan of the AirTrain + LIRR combo since moving into Manhattan from Brooklyn. Almost always consistently 45-50 minutes from terminal to my apartment in Chelsea. Perfect for rush hour to/from JFK.

[cylinder]

Uber to JFK is $66 right now. Taxis are a flat rate to JFK as well ($60 plus tip). There are car services you can call which will do it cheaper.

I've recently started doing Penn Station -> Jamaica w/ LIRR -> AirTrain, it's miles better than subway and almost preferable to car if you're paying for the car.

[dankohn1]

Uber flat price to the city is great until you hit a surge, which is easy to hit in the afternoons, especially when it rains. Then it can be 2x or 3x the price of pre-booking a ride. Uber should add reserve pricing for trips you know in advance, like AWS does.

[loucal]

There is no way google maps says that takes 3 hours, right now it shows 27min but obviously there is no traffic right now. In order for that trip to take 3 hours you would need a perfect storm of EXTREME traffic, zero knowledge of the city, and no gps to help you navigate. I would be astounded by those numbers too, but they aren't even close to accurate.

[TheSpiceIsLife]

You're right, sorry. I was looking at the distance on Google maps and then the 3hrs OP had mentioned. I didn't even think to look at Google maps time, which presently states 30 minutes. Looking now at what I've written it's obvious I didn't word that how I intended it. Thanks for picking that up.

[jrockway]

Takes me about an hour door-to-door via public transportation from downtown Brooklyn. I've never felt like paying the $70 to take a taxi, so not sure how long that takes.

[cylinder]

Definitely not three hours. Longest I've been stuck in traffic was 50 minutes from east Manhattan to JFK, and that was at 5pm on the day before Christmas eve (23rd).

[matthewsimon]

Three hours seems extreme. I live in Manhattan and can get to LGA in under an hour on a public bus, or by taxi in 35-45 minutes, and a taxi to JFK might take an hour but certainly not three.

[melling]

There's a train to the airport.

[JonTarg]

I just try to fly out of NYC after midnight, less people, virtually no traffic.

[vl]

There is subway line to JFK, why would you be in traffic?

[saalweachter]

JFK is at the end of a long subway line, with the Air Train between the subway and the airport. Coming from most parts of Manhattan, I would budget 90 minutes to get there via the subway and 45 minutes by taxi.

The subway to JFK is cheaper, but most people who live in Manhattan and can afford to fly semi-regularly are going to spring for a taxi.

[uberdog]

I would always take LIRR to Jamaica, then Airtrain. Easy peasy, way faster than the subway and only about $20.

[speik]

Taxi is much easier. If you've got the dough, you're going to take a taxi. It's a flat $45 rate out to JFK as well.

[dannylandau]

Maybe by facilitating the service via an app will make the difference here. A much bigger audience and probably a lot easier to book.

[nerfhammer]

Possibly by having the service on-demand they have fewer liabilities so you don't go out of business if demand drops off, which is what did in US Helicopter. Helicopters as a Service.

On the other hand if they're too successful maybe the company they're chartering from could decide to offer service themselves and cut them out

[imglorp]

Having it on-demand means they are possibly flying under FAA part 135 regs (charter/commuter) instead of 119 (scheduled carrier) so the expense might be a little lighter there.

That said, someone's got to pay the mortgage on a $2.6 million ship, plus fuel and maint and salaries etc etc.

[adevine]

They're not the carrier. From the bottom of the page:

Gotham Air is not a direct air carrier but rather provides technology and information services enabling consumers to obtain aircraft charter and shared aircraft charter services from FAA certified and DOT registered air carriers who exercise operational control over all flights .

[larrys]

Exactly I've seen a few services like this advertised exactly the same way (WSJ ads some run by former industry execs).

Interesting thought that the picture of the heli contradicts that (says "Gotham Air" on the side). That's no small point actually. Gives someone who doesn't read the fine print the idea that they do operate the aircraft. I understand why they do that but it is a bit deceptive.

[Animats]

The helicopter with "Gotham Air" on the side is a fake photo based on a New York Heli publicity shot. It's a Photoshop job.

Original: http://hereandtherewithoutacare.com/wp-content/gallery/new-y...

Faked, from Gotham Air site: http://static.wixstatic.com/media/b49883_4bfd352941a043ba83c...

[TheSpiceIsLife]

Wouldn't the livery on that helicopter in the photo just be a form of corporate advertising. Couldn't you paint your aircraft however you want so long as the correct registration / licensing marks are visible?

[lucaspiller]

Ryanair let you advertise on the exterior of their aircraft from €3000/month. Apparently the "cheapest outdoor medium in the world".

http://www.ryanair.com/doc/advertise/RyanairMediaCard.pdf

[bertil]

Uber also suggests driver feature their logo on the windshield of one of their category. Can’t remember which.

[ben1040]

I've taken UberX vehicles that had a logo card taped to the windshield.

[TeMPOraL]

Enough to sue them for misleading advertising or something like that? It needs to be done, just to make a point.

[larrys]

I would imagine that the chance of getting sued is quite small. What individual would sue and what harm would they claim? Government FTC most likely would not care and if they did all they would have to do is change the picture.

Likewise if there was an accident someone would have to say they relied on that information and was mislead. Unlikely (especially in the case of death how do you prove that?). Plus it is common practice to operate like this by similar parties.

Here is a similar company for jets:

http://www.bluestarjets.com/

Note how they do the same thing but don't have any logos on the jets.

http://www.bluestarjets.com/?page=company-payment-legal

My guess is that the "Gotham Air" will disappear from the home page picture.

[nerfhammer]

Right, they don't own any aircraft or facilities. It's like uber pool for helicopters

[woah]

A helicopter company is going to have a hard time hiring iOS developers and managing a software development project, not to mention the most important part: the brand.

[bengali3]

Yes, only marketing improvements here.