[nilliams]

Absolutely, I'm beginning to lose patience repeating the frankly blinding-obvious-at-this-point-argument you just had to make, but I'm glad others like yourself haven't.

The 'don't use frameworks, use libraries' argument is naive, and just does not hold up in the real world of teams trying to build things.

[girvo]

And I have found the "you're just writing your own framework" point needlessly repeated over and over, despite having never run into it in practice. Choosing a large framework does not insulate you from the concerns of the grandparent. You still must come up with a style guide, and a way of using the tools. The win is not obvious, imo.

[nilliams]

The style guide is surely longer when using a toolset with fewer conventions?

If I'm using Backbone over Ember, my style guide has to cover things that would be covered by Ember's own docs, for example how to compose views, how to do nested routing, how to represent computed properties ...

Your longer style guide is defining code patterns for those use-cases. Your longer style guide is a framework, just more verbose because you aren't actually abstracting away those patterns.