[beat]

There's a lot more to entrepreneurship than the weird little bubble of software startups. Entrepreneurs are just people who take a chance in order to make a real difference.

I grew up poor, and one of the hardest things about being poor is that there are so few role models for success. Except for teachers, I didn't know anyone educated. Except for the people my father worked for (and mostly hated), I didn't know anyone wealthy or successful. More of the grown men I knew were failures, criminals, and addicts than successes.

As a smart child in this environment, teachers and other authority figures expected intelligence to lead to obedience, and were frustrated that I didn't care that much about their rules, that I wasn't interested in being especially good at being mediocre. With a slightly different twist in the wind, I might well have wound up a criminal myself, although I like to think I'd have been a very good one.

Even when I left my hometown to go to college, it took me years to adjust to a "normal" life. And it took me years more to realize again what I knew instinctively as a child - that succeeding at mediocrity wasn't a worthwhile life.

The men and women who have made a point of being social entrepreneurs, of being role models in communities that desperately need them - they're better, braver, and tougher than most of the founders we fawn over here. And they'll make a more meaningful contribution to the world.

[iolothebard]

I wanted to be a cat burglar as a kid.

In all the studying, learning, planning and risk assessment I realized it's easier and less risky to just go to college. That and stealing isn't really something to aspire to in life.

Probably why I didn't stay in finance/accounting/banking. At least salesmen have to convince you of their lies, the money wonks just take it out of your account every month.

[Ntrails]

I still want to be a cat burglar. I don't really actually want to do the whole robbery thing, so much as plan it all and see if I could get away with it.

I'm glad computer games give me the chance to play at stuff to be honest, it's a great outlet.

[hueving]

> the money wonks just take it out of your account every month.

With a statement like that it sounds like you lack some important critical thinking skills. Try to provide concrete examples of things rather than echoing standard claptrap.

[visakanv]

It's interesting to look at your comment, and look at the nasty comment that it provoked. This is the starting point of a cycle of nastiness.

You could've asked the person to elaborate or be specific, or even contradicted or questioned them- without saying "you lack <important skill>" and "try to <be useful> rather than <being unimportant>".

Why so mean? Was the meanness intentional, or...? Genuinely curious.

[mseebach]

There's plenty of meanness in the GP as well, it's just a lot more subtle, so it's neither fair nor accurate to pin-point that comment as the starting point of a cycle.

"[F]inance/accounting/banking" is not one coherent blob of thieves or parasites or whatever labels otherwise apparently reasonable people get away with attaching to anything in the field. Of course it's not a divinely perfect field either (not that anyone is claiming that), of course it has big and important problems. But especially if you work in or near finance, it gets really annoying just how accepted and endorsed rampant prejudice is in the rest of society.

[davidw]

> It's interesting to look at your comment, and look at the nasty comment that it provoked. This is the starting point of a cycle of nastiness.

One helpful technique is to read what you've written out loud and consider whether it's something you'd say to someone's face.

[deciplex]

Honestly, if you can't withstand a little (in this case, very mild) invective every once in a while, then you probably should avoid discussing politics on the internet - if not in real life - altogether. While I obviously don't agree with him at all, I don't think heuving's comment was inappropriate, even within the context of trying to have a rational debate. And, I would say the same of my own 'nasty' comment as well. You don't have to be courteous and dispassionate to the point of servility to talk about politics or any other topic - and in fact for many people that's quite boring anyway.

Really, grow a thicker skin.

[visakanv]

It seems to me that you think I'm offended, or upset, or concerned about "appropriateness". I don't actually care for any of that!

Here were my thoughts:

1- We could have had an interesting discussion about finance

2- instead, it went "money wonks"-> "you lack critical skills" + "standard claptrap" -> "you lack some important read-a-newspaper-in-the-last-seven-years skills".

3- Back-and-forth snide, snarky attacks are far more boring (to me) than actually discussing points of contention, different points of view, so on.

4- I definitely appreciate that you took the trouble to link to the Emergency Economic Stablization Act, but it feels to me like the conversation had already soured before that.

5- I'm writing what I'm writing not so much because of this particular instance, but because mean comments in general tend to derail otherwise interesting or could've-been-interesting threads. Which feels wasteful to me. A mean comment has a souring effect that's IMHO not worth the short-term entertainment value.

[DanBC]

Heuving's comment is clearly against HN guidelines and as such is downvoted by a few people.

[iolothebard]

I was an auditor at Arthur Andersen, how about you pay attention to the fucking world around you before you start spouting off like you've got something to contribute yourself, eh dipshit?

[deciplex]

With a blanket and snarky dismissal like that it sounds like you lack some important read-a-newspaper-in-the-last-seven-years skills. Try to be more aware of your surroundings. This should get you started: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Economic_Stabilizatio...

[hueving]

So it might surprise you to find out that it was a very small percentage of that industry that caused that. The fair housing act did more damage than any individual banker in that event as well.

[deciplex]

I'm more interested in the damage they caused, than what percentage of the population they are. Murderers make up a small portion of the population as well, but we still punish them and take steps to prevent crime.

I've never heard a convincing argument about the Fair Housing Act - more than anything it reminds me of the 'spectre' of welfare queens riding around in limos that was a favorite of the right for many years. Although, I suppose if your claim is merely that it is more responsible than any individual banker, that might be plausible, if only because the contribution of any individual banker must necessarily be quite small (even if some of them did end up becoming famous for their role).

[visakanv]

> Entrepreneurs are just people who take a chance in order to make a real difference.

I'd go so far as to say- entrepreneurs are just people who are trying to solve problems. I get annoyed when I hear people ask things like "How do I become an entrepreneur?" in an aspirational way, as though it's some sort of cool club where all the cool kids are hanging out.

An entrepreneur is just a person who's so bothered by a particular problem, who's so dissatisfied with the status quo that she decided to get her hands dirty and make a dent in it.

[arximboldi]

So now Karl Marx was an enterpreneur.

[visakanv]

If you dig into the etymology and history of the word, I'd think yeah, absolutely.

> entrepreneur (n.) 1828, "manager or promoter of a theatrical production," reborrowing of French entrepreneur "one who undertakes or manages," agent noun from Old French entreprendre "undertake" (see enterprise). The word first crossed the Channel late 15c. (Middle English entreprenour) but did not stay. Meaning "business manager" is from 1852.

[marcosdumay]

Wasn't him?

He created a missled and malign enterpreneuship, but he did create something.

[cglee]

Software startups also tend to be very product-oriented and focus on global markets. But the most successful people I know (I don't know any billionares) run service-oriented small businesses and are focused on changing the neighborhood.

Changing your own 'hood is the first step to changing the world. There's not enough being said about serving your neighbors and getting to know your regulars on a first name basis.

[beat]

I feel that, in a way, I am changing my own 'hood. As an enterprise engineer, I'm trying to solve what I believe to be the most painful problem experienced by enterprise engineers - trying to figure out what caused complex systems to break down, so a fix can be formulated. This problem really sucks because it leads to a lot of yelling, finger-pointing, all-nighters, and general panic - bad social behavior that has nothing to do with the technical problem-solving we love.

So yeah, I feel I'm going after the problems of my peers, of my tribe. My 'hood, even if it's a virtual kind of 'hood.