[darkarmani]

> There is a trade off between the collective rights of the innocent citizenry and the rights of the victims of the crimes that can be avoided. At some point the cost of civilian lives will exceed the cost of strain on civil liberties.

That's a huge assumption. A totalitarian state comes at a cost far larger than civilian lives from terrorism. You are pretending that innovation will continue at the same rate without an open and free society.

[sml0820]

You are taking the slippery slope argument. The fact that the NSA would like the access to data mine phone records does not mean we have slipped into a totalitarian state. We have given up civil liberties for the sake of avoiding crimes in the future. I would state that innovation has been at an all time high in this condition within the past decade.