[kephra]

I have to agree, and even add: Never tell them first what you what want as payment. My method was always to say: Lets delay this unimportant money question. I'm a coder, I want to talk about coding, about your company culture, about your projects, about your testing environments, ... all those are much more important to me then salary.

And when they come out with a price tag finally I often tell: Well thats a nice salary for 20 hours per week work.

And guess what? I got 20 hours contracts this way 3 times.

[jerguismi]

Sounds nice, but I would make a big difference between being a contractor and an employee. Where I live, hiring contractors is much less risky (because of employment laws etc), therefore for contractors it is quite natural to pay more. I'm an employer myself.

[kephra]

Hourly payment is good for employees, and bad for consultants.

I'm now consulting again, and I avoid selling hours, because hours do not scale. Instead I sell solutions, because a solution to a problem likely has a much higher value than the hours summed up.

Also, if you switch from consulting to being employed you can ask for much better terms, then anyone who had been unemployed before. Always add the term to your contract, to allow you stay self employed in addition to employement, to serve old customers. And if you leave a company, offer them a maintenance contract.

For employed people, sometimes the 'cost of living' argument can make wonders. e.g. I once had a query from Munich, and after we went several weeks till I accepted negitiation of salary, I came up with:

I'll play only €208 per month for my flat in Bremen, including heating, waste removal and water. I only pay €100 for my yacht per year, including boats house in winter and mooring in summer. Your offer sounds nice, but rentals are 5 times as expensive in Munich, then in Bremen, and I better do not talk about prices for mooring a yacht in southern Germany. Get me a similar fat and mooring in Munich, or what do you think about home office + Bahn card gold (to ride the train for free) to visit your location once a week + hotel costs.

And you can really get those, if you switch from consulting to employed, because the company does prefer employed.

[porker]

> I'll play only €208 per month for my flat in Bremen, including heating, waste removal and water. I only pay €100 for my yacht per year, including boats house in winter and mooring in summer.

Sheesh that's cheap. I can't think of anywhere in the UK where I could get either for that price.

[Gurkenmaster]

>I'll play only €208 per month for my flat in Bremen

I also live in germany and I'm always confused when americans talk about salary because I have no idea what the cost of living is. The only thing I know is that gas and electronics are cheaper in the US.

[eru]

Of course you tell them what you want first. Why would you wait? You want to be setting the stage, and anchor any subsequent numbers.