[gaius]

Yes, particularly in the UK the vestiges of the old class system are that no matter what price the market clears at a blue-collar worker can never be paid more than a white-collar manager.

So if you are in a situation where there is a glut of junior managers and a scarcity of talented engineers, then seemingly inexplicable things start happening to salaries.

[wyclif]

I'm fascinated that in the UK, software engineers are not viewed as white-collar professionals. That seems to be a rather big difference between the work culture of the UK and the USA.

[gaius]

Yes, like I say, the class system, and the typical engineer's strongly expressed desire to dress scruffily and generally nonconfom, disregard hierarchy and so on. There's no reason that software professionals shouldn't be on a par with lawyers and accountants, the work is similar enough (describing the current and desired states of complex systems in very precise terms, and creating finely detailed plans for getting from here to there).

[mooreds]

> describing the current and desired states of complex systems in very precise terms, and creating finely detailed plans for getting from here to there

What a beautiful and elegant description of software engineering!

[Luyt]

What do you think will happen? Will the engineers earn more than the managers, or will the managers salaries go up just because the engineers earn more?

[gaius]

No, you will have managers crying about a talent shortage, and engineers wondering why they get paid so much less than lawyers, accountants and doctors (all of whom count as "white collar").

In other words, the UK today.