[killertypo]

> Meanwhile, in our more "enlightened" mainstream American culture, people write angry blog posts filled with stupid impact font image macros about how they literally judged an entire medium by its cover, because the female body is offensive or something.

It is absolutely offensive when it is posed in an unreal and unnatural way with impossible proportions and impossible looks.

I get that they are comics, but a story about super girl where she has a perfect 36-24-36 with Tripple F boobs that are molded and sculpted and pointed so far north you could almost navigate by them...it...it is a bit ridiculous.

Fun to look at, yes, but they don't offer much other than a fantasy.

[ANTSANTS]

Batman is improbably built. See how his muscles bulge preposterously from his armor? [1] In real life, most body builders focused on "aesthetics" would have to starve themselves to bring their body fat levels low enough to create that kind of appearance. They would not have the energy afterwards to serve Gotham. A fighter [2] or soldier [3] like Batman would prefer to build up "functional" muscle that will be useful in combat, and maintain much greater body fat levels to provide energy reserves in tough situations. Is Batman "offensive," or is exaggeration a basic element of art?

[1] http://cdn.screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/Batsuit-Reveal-...

[2] http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/1223/mma_2011best_29.jpg

[3] https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/3c/f4/81/3cf4816e3...

I hate to respond with an image macro, but in summary: https://i.imgur.com/MMdocdc.jpg

[zadroz90]

Two things:

1. killertypo is talking about the way /women/ are portrayed in comic books — not men. He may think the way men are portrayed is wrong as well, so bringing up Batman makes no sense.

2. The way men and women are portrayed is vastly different. Male superheroes are written (and drawn) as people you want to be, women superheroes are written (and drawn) as people you want to have sex with. This wouldn't be such a big deal if this wasn't the norm.

Check out the Hawkeye Initiative [1], Hawkeye is drawn the way female characters are drawn. Notice that you never see comic book heroes drawn that way unless they're women.

[1] http://thehawkeyeinitiative.com/

[ANTSANTS]

Again, I hate to respond in image macros, but the idea that women don't find men like Batman or Spider Man attractive is bullshit.

http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/258/9/6/tumblr_mtg09c...

(what do you know, the comic that image mocks was written by a guy...)

I'm sorry, but things like the "Hawkeye initiative" are just plain stupid for completely overlooking the differences between male and female sexuality. Look at the romance novel covers above and try to tell me they wouldn't look absolutely ridiculous with the genders swapped. It reminds me of sites like "Escher Girls", a collection of "boobs and butt" poses in art that the bloggers think are "anatomically impossible" and "disturbing", despite being absolutely trivial for men and women to perform alike.

http://eschergirls.tumblr.com/

http://pirate-cashoo.tumblr.com/post/26538269244

https://twitter.com/kinucakes/status/552353978378633218

And judging by the number of female comic book character cosplayers, I think it's safe to say that quite a few women "want to be" these characters, sexualized or not, as well. Women have created strong, sexualized, camp characters like Bayonetta explicitly as female power fantasies, but that never stops a certain band of puritanical American feminists from branding them as "offensive" symbols of the patriarchy.

http://platinumgames.com/2009/04/17/designing-bayonetta/

http://xbox360.gamespy.com/xbox-360/bayonetta/1013849p1.html

http://platinumgames.com/2014/06/27/character-design-pt-1-ba...

[vinceguidry]

Sexuality isn't the problem. Whatever you find sexy is whatever you find sexy and there's nothing wrong with that.

The problem is when media gets sexualized to the point where children grow up thinking only one way of looking at sexuality is the right way. It creates body image-related traumas that get reinforced in places like schools where kids are often taunted for not having the 'right' type. This should be fought whenever possible.

[zadroz90]

Let's try this again.

Your initial argument was essentially "but men are sexualized too!" And that was irrelevant, because we're talking about ladies.

That comic you posted actually sums it up pretty well, super heroes are drawn as male power fantasies. Also notice I never said anything about women finding Batman unattractive, the problem is that women are drawn almost exclusively to please just men. (Look up male gaze)

If I started reading romance novels, then I too might give a damn if my gender is normally portrayed in certain ways. But I read comic books and found myself enjoying the ones where women get to be people to.

[eli_gottlieb]

>Check out the Hawkeye Initiative [1], Hawkeye is drawn the way female characters are drawn. Notice that you never see comic book heroes drawn that way unless they're women.

OR unless you're reading Jojo's Bizarre Adventure.

http://theglorioblog.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/jojos-bizar... -- pictured: some kinda Aztec vampire thingy eating some poor soul

[ANTSANTS]

Damn, I really should have included JoJo as an example of straight male manga fans being totally cool with ludicrously flamboyant male characters.

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121201210751/jjba/image...

http://animebot.everyboty.net/pix/2994.png

[yarou]

Bishounen is quite popular in Japan, many studios often use this art style, as well as female and male mangaka.

Also "Aztec vampire thingies"? Kars and his lot are the progenitors of mankind.

[eli_gottlieb]

No, the Pillar Men are a prehistoric cousin-species that couldn't withstand UV light and ate both humans and ordinary vampires. The Aztecs worshiped them as gods, and Cars' attempt to mutate himself into an even-more-super superbeing was what created the Stone Mask.

(Yes, I do remember far too much, far too easily about fine details of anime stories.)

[killertypo]

the portrayal of men is just as dumb and unrealistic. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy comics quite a bit (Infinity Guantlet anyone? Planet Hulk? World War Hulk???)

I think hyper sexualization of any gender is stupid and serves more as softcore porn than anything.

It is just slightly more offensive to women who spent a long time in our history being told "Well maybe you shouldn't have worn that dress and he wouldn't have hit on you the way he did."

BUT HEY before this gets out of hand, it is equally as degrading as putting down a man for "Well if your wife hits you and you just take it, your a little b()."

There has to be some give and take on this issue, it is not so clearly black and white.

I'm a big enough adult to recognize it's just stupid to think I can change comics and how they are drawn. Maybe if there were a bit more selection for my daughter so she could ease her way into it though? That would be pretty cool.

We're talking about creating a business out of an existing business.

Not getting rid of what we have, at some point you have to accept the reality of the world we live in. I don't want to strike down comic books, but it would be cool if they had a bigger selection for my kids (who would love to enjoy what daddy is reading, but they can wait until they're more mentally/emotionally/physically developed before being exposed).

[killertypo]

http://moviepilot.com/posts/2015/01/16/9-incredible-examples...

here is a great example of how to make interesting and compelling art without drawing your females as hyper sexualized pieces of meat.

Sans the DBZ one, which is -okayish- but still debatable.

[eli_gottlieb]

Yes, of course the portrayal of men is oversexualized and problematic. Next question.

[ANTSANTS]

"Problematic?" Why is that? Straight women and gay men enjoying beefcake aren't hurting anyone.