[Killah911]

I'm not Mormon, but I shudder when I see the mainstream media ripping on Mormons or Scientologists. This isn't us. I think this is one of the biggest things we've lost to 9/11, decency and restraint. It was first OK to talk shit about Muslims, Towelheads (sadly many more peaceful Sikhs were victimized by actual violence than Muslims), then Scientologists, then Mormons. What the hell happened to our ideals?

I recall receiving an e-mail from a KKK affiliate. It was a rational argument that a significantly larger proportion of the black population was incarcerated as compared to whites. The e-mail stated that see it on TV shows like cops who perpetrate heinous crimes. It then went to state that it's not about being racist. It's about taking a stand... I replied with a long rant countering every point and was obviously unsubscribed from the list.

Now let's apply that template to other minorities. Hmmm, skin color is too obvious, let's do religion instead. "Did you see how most scientologists are crazy? They jump on couches..." It's not racism since you're not targeting a race. But it's the same fucking thing. You're singling out a minority group. While you might not personally like a minority group, one not as powerful as the group you belong to, our society did not publicly attack minorities (I'm talking about the 90's).

It seems the only things that still haven't crept in are outright racism against a different race (probably because racial minorities are more powerful now). But we are now taking pride in offending and trying to decimate the views that aren't mainstream. WTF is that? Did we forget what that type of vitriol led to the last time around?

Can you seriously compare the socioeconomic conditions of the average Mormon to a Muslim from Iraq or Afghanistan?

I'm amazed that I'm reading comments on HN comparing 1.7B Muslims and trying to judge them as a whole. Yes, it's not technically racism, but it's not any less shallow or ignorant.

Is Islam more violent than Christianity? (WTF kind of a question is that)

Are American blacks more criminal than whites?

Both of these questions should make anyone with intelligence shudder. If you just tell yourself that you're asking yourself these questions "scientifically" an "rationally", let's not forget the Nazi Scientists who were measuring how Jews were scientifically different or even earlier when scientists in a slave owning american were trying to prove that blacks people were less evolved than whites.

[randomsearch]

> Is Islam more violent than Christianity? (WTF kind of a question is that)

> Are American blacks more criminal than whites?

Aren't these questions fundamentally different? One is about a belief system, the other is about someone's physical appearance caused by their genes. Given a belief system is at least partly made by choice (assuming you have that choice), you could ask this question without being "racist".

"Are communists more violent in their pursuit of ideals than socialists?" -- a similar and valid question. Perhaps communism requires a strangehold on the state that socialism doesn't, so more violence has occurred in the name of communism. Maybe not. But it's a valid question.

[Killah911]

> Given that a belief system is at least partly made by choice

An interesting point. On a purely rational and logical level, yes, they're fundamentally different, and your'e a racist if you're bashing another race.

But in reality, people's beliefs closely reflect the beliefs and values of the society they live in. While two people living in the same community might have different religions, most noticeable differences are slight.

So, in some way, for most people, religion is inherited part of one's identity. If you happen to have the luxury of being able to reflect on your life, then you might adopt another religion or develop your own set of beliefs. A majority of the world does not have that opportunity or luxury.

So, yes, while it's technically not racism, but it effectively is bigotry in most cases. I think one of the coolest things in western culture is to question authority and be willing to be introspective. I have personally learned a great deal, thru introspection and being open to at lease listening to ideas that are very different than my own. This, to me, is an awesome opportunity that freedom of speech and not silencing dissenting opinion offers us as a society.

But what has become commonplace through the umbrella "free" speech is not the introspective discussions, but it's basically now our right to attack others whose opinions, beliefs (even inherited labels like religion) differ from us. Sure we have the right to free speech, even to offend.

I deleted the rest of the comment before posting it. I realized that the analogy I was making could have sounded like blaming the victims of Charlie Hebdo for what happened. That's wrong, so I chose not to express it. I technically would have been OK, but it's not the right thing to do.

Expressing views that will obviously polarize an entire section of population, and knowingly doing so for clicks, views, ads, or whatever, is short sighted and leave us with more negativity and intellectually worse off as a society.

[IvyMike]

Religion is a collection of ideas.

And bad ideas deserve to be criticized.

It's as simple as that.