[jongala]

Yeah, exactly — once you have an electric motor/generator and an energy store, the whole game changes because you can approach the power sync problem of lag in new ways. Also, the issue of turbo size and over/under producing boost and the need for wastegates can be better managed if there is a way to capture and store exhaust energy without routing it directly to the compressor.

Some of the more sophisticated work here is also being done by Porsche in their LeMans program, which has (as I understand it) a uniquely complex turbo/hybrid setup.

I think it's really exciting. Considering this type of usage — mostly transient stuff — it's tempting to think of a system for sports cars with a supercap energy store that's lighter weight than a battery store. Toyota use supercap stores in their LeMans car, I'll be interested to see if that trickles down anywhere.

[seanp2k2]

Idk, is there something wrong with liking the simplicity and predictability of something with less computers and a big NA motor, like a Viper or a motorcycle? Enjoying driving is about much more than just speed and power-to-weight ratios, and the article makes a good point about their effective impact on air quality already being negligible. I'd rather see a bigger shift in industry standards such that e.g. power generation becomes more efficient vs the current trend of giving everyone who buys a Porsche 918[1], Tesla, or Prius a tax break for saving the planet.

1. http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxphevb.shtml because someone buying a $845,000 car which gets 20mpg city / 24 highway and carries 2 people definitely deserves a $3,667 tax break for reducing emissions

[jongala]

So two very different thoughts here, and I basically agree with both: yes, there is still a place for simple, mostly analog, NA powered sports cars, and yes, it is a distortion of the system for a 918 to get some kind of green subsidy.

I was just speaking towards new paths in getting the most out of ICE-centered power systems, that an alternative power store and MGU can uncover better turbocharging options vs. a purely mechanically coupled turbine/compressor. These technologies are being developed at the less price-sensitive high end of the market, just as Tesla is doing with an all-electric drivetrain. They started at 100K+ roadsters, developed to an 80K luxury sedan, and are developing down market from there. I think it's totally appropriate to encourage a shift in industry standards, as you say, with incentives in this segment of the market (let alone where the Prius sits). It's a bit of an absurdity with the Porsche, but take heart that there are only 918 being made…

As far as what kind of sports cars we should be encouraging, even mid-market cars are so fast now you really can't enjoy them on the road. That's why cars that emphasize a fun driving experience at still-sane speeds are the most interesting to me now, like the FR-S, the Miata, the Elise, etc. But that's a separate conversation.

[dubya]

Supercaps are in Mazda 3's, so the parts are available. The system is call i-eloop. I think they're just used for powering accessories so far.