[o2sd98]

Your description of balance illustrates the problem.

Lets say you have two groups of people, one of which thinks you should put sugar in bread, and the other which thinks putting sugar in bread is blasphemous. On the issue of sugar in bread, you will get a rigorous debate for the affirmative and negative.

However, if someone posts something to the effect of "Humans shouldn't be eating bread", both of those groups of people will vote that comment down, regardless of the argument presented.

Apple, Google and Microsoft fans all agree that computers and software are 'good things', it is the implementation details where they disagree, so any dissenting opinion to common ground that those groups share will be prejudicially downvoted into oblivion.

It is this common ground where group think is created and reinforced.

[jnbiche]

That's a pretty fair criticism, and I have to agree with everything that you write here. But I don't see any way around that. I can't imagine a general interest site could possibly function like HN.

[o2sd98]

About 18 months ago I stopped posting regularly on HN after my former account was downvoted into a type of purgatory that was impossible to escape from. I still read the interesting articles and the occasional interesting discussion, but something I discovered in the intervening period of participating in unmoderated/uncensored forums is that trolls make you THINK. There are some exceptional trolls out there on the interwebs, some of whom do it as a day job. They post articulate but specious arguments that are very difficult to debunk unless you do meticulous research, double check your calculations, edit your reply for succinctness, remove any possible semantic ambiguity. I think there is an argument to be made for the stimulating effect of trolls on the rigour and effort of the opposing participants. I agree however that trolls can and have destroyed valuable forums of discussion, but so has lack of interest.

[jnbiche]

>something I discovered in the intervening period of participating in unmoderated/uncensored forums is that trolls make you THINK

Some trolls make you think. Some trolls only hope to destroy online communities, and they are usually very good at it. It can be very hard sometimes to differentiate between the two.

Also, it's entirely possible to make people think without trolling (and I know you weren't claiming this). For example, your response to my remark made me think without being trollish. I personally prefer to participate in communities that promote your type of provocative comment, and not in ones where trolls are given free reign. But that's just me.

[o2sd98]

I agree with what you say. There is a fine line, however, between censuring trolls and suppressing dissent. I think anonymous downvoting and no right of reply, risks the latter to gain the former.

[prettymuchthis]

Exactly. I spent a couple weeks building up my little HN points once. Then I made a comment like "That was a very interesting article!" and was downvoted to hell. I asked why, and that was downvoted to hell. Negative karma after working on positive for two weeks.

So fsck you very much you guys. Every last one of you with your little down vote button. Now when I feel the urge to post here, I create a single use throwaway account, say whatever I feel like, and then log out.

HN is very much a hivemind. It's easy to see when you're not worried about your negative internet points.

[jnbiche]

I'm sorry you were downvoted with no explanation, I'm sure that sucked after gaining positive karma.

As you may know, what you ran into there were two foundational ideas in HN culture, which are:

1. Don't post "trivial" comments that are common on Reddit, like "+1", "thanks for that!", "interesting article!". HN tries to maintain a very high signal to "noise" ratio by discouraging these kinds of comments, and I actually appreciate it, since reading through lots of those types of comments makes it difficult to focus on comments meant to foster further discussion, or to inform.

2. It's an official guideline not to complain about being downvoted. Your comment asking why you were downvoted may have been interpreted as complaining about being downvoted. If you were just asking why, I'm sorry you were downvoted and that no one bothered to explain.

Every online community has its quirks, and you just happened to run into two of them with your comments in that post. Personally, I've never worried too much about accumulating points on HN. I just try to post informative comments, or comments meant to provoke discussion, and things have gone well.

Again, sorry you were downvoted for asking a simple question. I'd not do that.

[balls187]

> Negative karma after working on positive for two weeks...I create a single use throwaway account, say whatever I feel like, and then log out.

> HN is very much a hivemind. It's easy to see when you're not worried about your negative internet points.

The problem isn't HN and the hivemind. The problem here is you. You still care about the points (or rather the consequences of them) because you take the trouble to create a throwaway account, so that when your post is upvoted, or downvoted, you don't feel tied to it.

If you truly didn't care you would either:

1) stop posting on here altogether 2) not care about what others thought of your comments, and stop using throwaway accounts.