[parennoob]

This. I come from a culture where tipping implies "reward for good service". But in the US, I always feel that if I tip less than the expected 20%, practically I may be cutting into someone's wages. If they demand the difference, they may end up getting fired by their boss.

Does anyone know if these workers are that helpless in practice? Or can they make a single call and get the restaurant owner in trouble if he/she doesn't make up their wages to the minimum? (As an H1B employee, I know well that the theoretical extent of what you can do and the practical extent are sometimes far apart.)

Interestingly, I've seen that this perceived "power/responsibility to ruin someone's job" makes it so that as an outsider, I tip more than the average. I've seen American friends tip 10% when I was tipping 20% for 'average, not great' service.

[jmccree]

It's really not that most restaurants wouldn't make up the wages to the minimum. The minimum wage in most US states is not for most people would call a "living wage, it's around $15k/yr. It's not uncommon in a major city for waiters to be able to pull in $30-60k/year. The thing is that in many place tips are paid out in cash at the end of their shift, so if you don't tip you're literally taking money out of their pocket for that day.

Many paycheck I've seen from most wait staff is less than $20 for two weeks. The employer is required to withhold taxes based on the hours worked and tips reported, so the whole paycheck basically goes to taxes.

As for cases where someone doesn't make enough tips to hit minimum wage, in many places not making enough tips is a sign that the person isn't doing a good enough job. So they won't be fired for "asking for minimum wage", but because "their performance was unsatisfactory".

So yes, in practice most wait staff do live off their tips. Depending on the locale an extra $10 or $100 in tips could be the difference in what their kid eats that night or whether they can make their car payment tomorrow.

(Personal story time: I will always remember helping my mom wait tables at a local diner when I was young and someone tipped $10 on a ~$10 meal and instead of eating hamburger helper that night we got to go out an eat at Long John Silver's.)

[vosper]

Except that you're not "literally taking money out of their pocket for that day" - that would imply that the money was rightfully theirs, and that you've essentially stolen it from them by not tipping. That's not how tipping works - it's the customers money, given at their discretion. There's a strong sense of obligation felt by most people, but it is ultimately optional.

[nucleardog]

Most places require the wait staff to tip out the kitchen a percent of their sales at the end of the shift to the tune of 2-5%.

If you don't tip then you are actually actually taking money out of their pocket since they're now going to have to cover your 2-5% tip to the kitchen out of their own, rightfully earned, money.

[jack-r-abbit]

That is illegal. Google it. A group of tipped employees (ie. servers and bartenders) may pool tips. But it is illegal to force them to include non-tipped employees (ie cooks, dishwashers, etc) in the pool. Servers may tip the cooks, etc themselves if they want. But they can't be required to.

[nucleardog]

Err, not in my province. Not only is it entirely legal, it's common and generally accepted practice.

[johngalt]

They have to report their tips for tax purposes. If the reported wages don't add up to minimum, then the restaurant can get in trouble from a whole host of government agencies. Even if the employee does nothing, the IRS will come calling assuming that tips are being under-reported.

[pmoriarty]

It's even worse in Europe, where a "mandatory tip" is already included in your bill by the time you get it. The service in Europe tends to be of a much lower quality than in the US as well.

In general, the US is a consumer paradise compared to Europe. In the US, it's better to be a consumer than an employee. In Europe it's the opposite.

[ma2rten]

It's even worse in Europe, where a "mandatory tip" is already included in your bill by the time you get it.

There is no "mandatory tip" in Europe. It's actually very simple: you pay for a service, the business pays it's employees. How much the employees get payed is not your concern as a customer. You can tip if you received excellent service, but that is totally optional as it should be.

In general, the US is a consumer paradise compared to Europe.

That is not true. US is business friendly. Europe is consumer and employee friendly. Just some examples: VAT is included in the price, all electronics include 2 year warranty, if you pay CRV you can return the bottle at the shop, shops must except returns, ...

[dantheman]

Europe is not consumer friendly at all.

Service is terrible, many places only accept cash, more accept debit cards, most don't accept credit cards.

Store hours are terrible.

[59nadir]

Sweden runs almost exclusively on plastic and technology, so much so that even a lot of older people don't even get physical bills anymore.

To say "Europe is..." about anything is a pretty broad statement. Your one or two trips to a couple of european countries probably doesn't qualify you to make this statement.

It's true about some countries in Europe. Bulgaria, for example, generally has bad service and you're lucky if you can use card to pay for everything you buy during a day. This is not representative of even a majority of Europe, though.

[elbear]

Where in Europe have you been? The diversity between countries is big and even in the same country you encounter differences.

[dalore]

Perhaps in the country. Europe is a big place. Places I go in Paris, Stockholm, London, Amsterdam usually accept cards.

[lucaspiller]

> It's even worse in Europe, where a "mandatory tip" is already included in your bill by the time you get it.

Recently a lot of restaurants in London have started adding this, however the "service charge" is completely optional (UK advertising laws state that the advertised price, in the menu, should include all fees and taxes). I think they've only done this as European tourists are used to it, so they can get more £££.

[zhte415]

Service charge included in the bill, often 10-15%, has been standard for decades, though some restaurants decline to add it, as it is optional. You can refuse to pay it when included in the bill.

Tipping in the UK is not expected, nor is it expected that visitors from Europe will tip, unless they're tricked into expecting tipping is expected. It is appreciated, but not expected.

This is London, other parts of the UK may vary.

[eterm]

This has been standard practice in the UK for a while now, but it's completely legal to cross through the service charge and tip cash (or not at all).

[59nadir]

> In general, the US is a consumer paradise compared to Europe. In the US, it's better to be a consumer than an employee. In Europe it's the opposite.

Yeah, that's why every time there is a TnC/EULA dispute european courts are the ones to throw out garbage conditions stated in EULAs and US courts are the ones who uphold them.

Sweden has a very consumer-centric mindset, to the point where I haven't in 26 years of living there ever felt like I was 'being fucked'. Even in this thread I see stuff in the US about being charged for using a card to pay. That's illegal in Sweden.

As an even better example, you have a 3 year right to return a product if it breaks, which overrides any signed contract or anything you might agree with in terms of guarantee with a store. It makes things like Applecare (that you apparently badly need in the US) useless, because everyone already has "Applecare for everything" as a consumer right.

[dalore]

That's why it's all gone to pot. You don't realise that employees are consumers. You give them more money they spend more.