[balls187]

> I wonder to what degree technology has played a role.

Since 2008, other than smartphones, what has really changed in tech?

[VLM]

Social media? "Meet me at 6" rather than one guy standing on a street corner all day?

Burner phones being cheap and capable of texting?

[balls187]

All of which existed in 2008.

[loso]

large parts of the poorer urban communities didn't jump on the smartphone bandwagon until 2010. "Ballers" had Blackberries but most people were still using flip or feature phones. I remember arguing with a lot of people that the iPhone/Android was the future.

Around 2010 all of that changed. Everyone in my neighborhood in Harlem started to have smartphones. And with the rise of smartphones in poor urban neighborhoods came the rise of these same people using social media in record numbers.

[balls187]

> Ballers" had Blackberries but most people were still using flip or feature phones.

You just made my point.

Flip and feature phones were used in poor urban communities. Those were more than capable of texting, and using text to set up a drug meet.

[sanderjd]

The pervasiveness of social media since 2008 has been a qualitative, rather than just quantitative, change. Different things are possible when such a high percentage of people have access to the same network. Also, 6 years is not a very long time frame over which to scoff at a lack of progress, even if it were true...

[balls187]

I'm not scoffing at a lack of progress.

This thread started with some one asking whether Tech had played a role in the decline of street gangs.

I am making the case that outside of the smartphone, and faster wireless networks, nothing fundamentally changed between 2008 and now.

So, did the rise in smartphones lead to the decline of street gangs?

Causation vs Correlation.

[afarrell]

Didn't change for you and the hacker news crowd, or didn't change for potential urban gang members?

[sanderjd]

I apologize for reading the word "scoff" into your comment about technology, but I think my point that the pervasiveness of social media represents another qualitative (or perhaps "fundamental", to use your terminology) change during that period stands.

[InclinedPlane]

But weren't ubiquitous.

The web existed in 1995, but it wasn't until the late '90s that it started becoming heavily used by the majority of the public at large.

[balls187]

In 2008, cheap cell phones were ubiquitous.

[codingdave]

existed != pervasive

[balls187]

In 2008 cell phones capable of texting were pervasive, and ubiquitous.

As was MySpace.

[toolz]

Online drug sales from sites like silk road, for one.

[apt-bunt]

I have to disagree with you on this point. I doubt Silk Road or people buying drugs online with bitcoins have affected the market for street drugs at all. Two completely different socio-economic markets.

Most who buy drugs in the inner city do not have access to bitcoin and/or Silk Road, and even if they did they would scoff at the inflated prices compared to the price on the streets.

[noer]

From what I've read gangs where I live (Chicago), they don't get as involved in drug sales as one might think. It's less about drug territories and more about representing the block one grew up on. This American Life did a pretty good story about it in two episodes about a high school a couple of years ago.