[teddyh]

Look at how the communities around languages like Basic, Pascal, C, Lisp and Python have developed.

They were, from the beginning, open with development, releasing early and often, and were explicit about readily accepting large contributions from outsiders (and really did so). The creators were always open to the possibility that they themselves might not be the eternal keepers of the language, which allowed competition when others developed the language further.

Contrast this with the development of the languages I mentioned. They have done the opposite of these things.

[diakritikal]

Your assertions are at odds with everything observable with regards to development of the Go language.

[teddyh]

I freely admit that I do not know the intimate details of Go development, but my point is that they are almost irrelevant. Go is still perceived to be controlled by (and therefore is controlled by) Google. How much that is actually true is almost irrelevant until the perception changes. And with a name like “Go”, Google likely has no intention or wish for that perception to change.

I mean, can anyone claim that an internal developer at, say, Microsoft or Apple could develop programs in Go and have them become used for large parts of the internal company infrastructure without it becoming politically sensitive, just as if they had chosen, say, C? Until that happens, Go is not an obviously-neutral platform, and I therefore have no desire to use it.

[enneff]

> I freely admit that I do not know the intimate details of Go development ... How much that is actually true is almost irrelevant until the perception changes.

Since you freely admit your ignorance, can you please stop making uninformed statements that spread FUD about Go? Those of us in the Go community that invest our lives in this project don't appreciate your senseless negativity.

[pjc50]

I don't think this is true of C. The original compilers were AT&T proprietary, surely? Hence the need for multiple competing implementations.

[teddyh]

This is true of the very initial versions of C. My understanding is that it wasn’t really popular until the C compiler was freely given out to universities and later the world. Also, the book (The C Programming Language), effectively an easy-to-read language specification, contributed heavily to independent implementations, as the language filled a hitherto unfilled niche.

[leaveyou]

I think you should do what you ask to be done. You fork Go under a new name, create a community with the same objectives as yours around it, be competitive and develop the language further and then reap the satisfaction. If there is a significant need for your ideas I'm sure the developers will join you (otherwise you will have the best proof that your idea is just not good enough for many others). Personally I'm very glad and grateful for the product of a tremendous amount of man hours I receive for free even if I too have ideas (that don't overlap perfectly with Go) about how a better language should be.

[teddyh]

You misunderstand me, please re-read what I wrote. Nowhere did I call for the forking of Go. On the contrary, I specifically wrote that it was unrealistic to even envision it, since it would not work as long as Google sponsored more into its development that I could do with the fork, and as long as Google was perceived as a more stable future sponsor of said development.

What I wrote was that I, personally, would not use Go as long as its development was perceived to be controlled and paid by Google. Forking Go would not ameliorate this in any way, unless it was successful, which would be extremely unlikely.

[leaveyou]

Normally I don't reply in this kind of situations but I make an exception: 1 I think You misunderstand Go. 2 You complain about something you admit you don't know well. 3 You want the development to be more the way you want it without making any effort. My feeling is: Your internal feelings towards Go development are not relevant for many.