[Elrac]

The US penal system is shockingly big on vengeance over resocialization. America's Christian fundamentalists like it that way because they claim as their own the worst personality flaws of their ancient Jewish war god. And American politicians know they can easily collect a few more votes by acting "tougher on crime."

[Xeoncross]

As an American Christian I believe nothing of the sort. What is your source for this ad hominem claim?

The bible actually doesn't support the idea of prisons at all. If someone murders, then they need to be put to death. Otherwise, theft, drugs, and all other crimes are best handled outside of a prison system that does very little to help a person recover from their problems.

Christ advocated restoring a person. Secular governments advocate locking them up so they don't have to deal with it.

[Elrac]

Pardon the delayed response! I lost sight of this conversation.

Are you a Christian fundamentalist? Well known examples include the Westbury Baptist Church and the Southern Baptist Convention. If you're not like those people then what you believe is irrelevant to what I'm talking about and I don't understand why you're acting offended.

If you're interested, you can read a bit of exposition on the role of the Christian Right in pushing for increasingly harsh punishment in the US: http://www.politicalresearch.org/2004/11/06/calvinism-capita... . Along related lines, I find myself disgusted by the zeal with which Christian fundamentalists engage in the corporal punishment of children, again with solid support from the Bible: http://zakherys.tripod.com/greven.htm

You're correct that the Bible doesn't advocate imprisonment: It goes further by supporting slavery, which combines the loss of personal liberty with the obligation of enforced labor. And while the penal systems of modern, enlightened countries do tend to aim at resocialization rather than vengeance, prisons in the American Bible Belt have re-introduced conditions strongly reminiscent of Biblical slavery. Coincidence? I think not.

[Xeoncross]

Elrac, thanks for the follow-up. When I have time I would like to address this further.

However, I do consider myself a Christian - and looking at the 5 truths that make someone a "Fundamental Christian" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalism#Christian) I certainly hold to all five.

However, it appears that the new meaning of "Fundamental Christian" you and some others have assigned actually has nothing to do with this standard definition - and is a often a warped, hateful, version of someone's own imagination.

The "Christian Right" is about as varied as the muslim world is. You have to understand that the only people you hear about are those that are doing it wrong. For example, no one cares about everyone walking normally - it's those that start fights that get the attention.

Anyway, "It goes further by supporting slavery" isn't true either. That is just a sensationalist claim based on the ancient history recorded in the old testament. Jesus and the apostles and prophets actually went the other way and said that Christians should serve others instead of themselves.

Slavery was abolished in Britain and America through work of Christians like William Wilberforce and Martin Luther King, Jr.

[ceejayoz]

Not sure if it was a ninja-edit, but the poster appears to be talking about fundamentalist Protestants, who do tend to have a more Old Testament take on things than Christ's teachings.

[jqm]

Well...to be fair there is a bit of stoning in the bible. And if it comes to that, I'll take a stretch in prison if it's all the same.

[celticninja]

so you are christian but approve of the death penalty?